Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

That's all true but a lot of drivers still love to wind them out on the big tracks and a lot of fans like the speed as well. Economically speaking you are correct and I think the racing is usually better on the smaller tracks, though not always. To me a perfect sprint car track would be 3/8 - 4/10 in size, preferably wide and high banked with a cushion.

The fact that there is concern about Knoxville or Badlands is silly.  The easy answer is more 410 cars.  There are a lot of 360's and 305's in both areas that have to be serious about reassessing their situation this coming offseason, because even if it costs more to run a 410, there is a bunch more money to be made running 410's.

The bigger concern which no one seems to be bringing up is, are either of these tracks sustainable.  Knoxville was apparently not making money on the weekly show at the old purse.  Now they are paying out 14k more with no increase in ticket prices???  That is stupidity.  They either need to increase their ticket prices, or accept the fact that they don't have the best purse in the midwest and focus on having a great program.

Badlands giving away a free night?  That was a 50,000 bill.  I know Chuck makes money, but assuming he loses close to $400,000 this year after investing $6M, changes are coming.  You don't get to the point of blowing $400k a year by being a bad businessman, and eventually he is going to evaluate that his business model doesn't make sense. 

When things stabalize, and car counts grow a bit, that is when it will be interesting to see what happens.

The real question is, how is attendance and how are sponsorship and suite sales?  I think Badlands saw a decent increase in sponsorship dollars, and the new suites are making nice money.  KNoxville seems to have more suites available then they have in a long time.  Second, is attendance at Knoxville up with the NSL, or about the same?  Third, is Badlands averaging 2500/night?  If so, they are close to breaking even.  If not, then the purse is going to come down.

A lot to be answered between now and 2020.

This is all true, but for real money wins on any size track has some poor guy with a junk motor winning up there, yep! Mcarl same guy that wins at Knoxville, yes it's hard on motors, yes a crash kills more parts, but really most race to drive against the best,to win at Knoxville, can't remember anyone talking about all I need to complete my life is win at badlands, but think Knoxville has that effect, nascar owners don't talk about the big win there car had at badlands but have listened to that from nascar drivers, so do we really want that to happen the loss of another great track, the grow,ascot,manzanita, and yes the doors are a long way from closed, but the true fans I ask why hurt it at all, in a few years that kiss money and chuck mite be gone, just ask ascot fans if they ever felt it was going away, but it's still gone,they close forever! Is badlands forever, is chuck forever? True fans can't be blamed for the need for home town good racing,but chuck know little about racing he mite have learned fast, but advisers need to stop him from hurts 410 racing there is only a few owners out there and yes your 300 miles away as you all said,but as past results show it needs that plus all the other states around to draw cars, the wal-mart way pay low until all to rest is hurt or gone,then drivers can't go leave prices go up, purse comes down, and the things people forget Knoxville works hard or the fans do,if a guy gets hurt there's a little money there to help, have them few drivers forgot, I'm sure one guy has worked all angles to his benifit, when he lost his mind called Doug Clark a one eyed n word, nothing was said or done in the media, why? If that happened at any other sporting event all hell mite break opened but nothing was said,Knoxville moved on from it plus Doug was a bigger man and moved on, why in most sports he'd Been done,that's the true power of Knoxville raceway, plus don't forget this was done on the biggest stage in front of kids fans and family's you think,manning or Rodgers can do it? 

This is all true, but for real money wins on any size track has some poor guy with a junk motor winning up there, yep! Mcarl same guy that wins at Knoxville, yes it's hard on motors, yes a crash kills more parts, but really most race to drive against the best,to win at Knoxville, can't remember anyone talking about all I need to complete my life is win at badlands, but think Knoxville has that effect, nascar owners don't talk about the big win there car had at badlands but have listened to that from nascar drivers, so do we really want that to happen the loss of another great track, the grow,ascot,manzanita, and yes the doors are a long way from closed, but the true fans I ask why hurt it at all, in a few years that kiss money and chuck mite be gone, just ask ascot fans if they ever felt it was going away, but it's still gone,they close forever! Is badlands forever, is chuck forever? True fans can't be blamed for the need for home town good racing,but chuck know little about racing he mite have learned fast, but advisers need to stop him from hurts 410 racing there is only a few owners out there and yes your 300 miles away as you all said,but as past results show it needs that plus all the other states around to draw cars, the wal-mart way pay low until all to rest is hurt or gone,then drivers can't go leave prices go up, purse comes down, and the things people forget Knoxville works hard or the fans do,if a guy gets hurt there's a little money there to help, have them few drivers forgot, I'm sure one guy has worked all angles to his benifit, when he lost his mind called Doug Clark a one eyed n word, nothing was said or done in the media, why? If that happened at any other sporting event all hell mite break opened but nothing was said,Knoxville moved on from it plus Doug was a bigger man and moved on, why in most sports he'd Been done,that's the true power of Knoxville raceway, plus don't forget this was done on the biggest stage in front of kids fans and family's you think,manning or Rodgers can do it? 

The fact that there is concern about Knoxville or Badlands is silly.  The easy answer is more 410 cars.  There are a lot of 360's and 305's in both areas that have to be serious about reassessing their situation this coming offseason, because even if it costs more to run a 410, there is a bunch more money to be made running 410's.

The bigger concern which no one seems to be bringing up is, are either of these tracks sustainable.  Knoxville was apparently not making money on the weekly show at the old purse.  Now they are paying out 14k more with no increase in ticket prices???  That is stupidity.  They either need to increase their ticket prices, or accept the fact that they don't have the best purse in the midwest and focus on having a great program.

Badlands giving away a free night?  That was a 50,000 bill.  I know Chuck makes money, but assuming he loses close to $400,000 this year after investing $6M, changes are coming.  You don't get to the point of blowing $400k a year by being a bad businessman, and eventually he is going to evaluate that his business model doesn't make sense. 

When things stabalize, and car counts grow a bit, that is when it will be interesting to see what happens.

The real question is, how is attendance and how are sponsorship and suite sales?  I think Badlands saw a decent increase in sponsorship dollars, and the new suites are making nice money.  KNoxville seems to have more suites available then they have in a long time.  Second, is attendance at Knoxville up with the NSL, or about the same?  Third, is Badlands averaging 2500/night?  If so, they are close to breaking even.  If not, then the purse is going to come down.

A lot to be answered between now and 2020.

You might want to try Hooked on Phonics.    Just a suggestion.....

     slideguy- I'm not going to argue, because I agree with most of what you've written, and I left my arguing pants at home today.  I do question your last sentence about 2500 fans a night would be close to breaking even. (Consider that maybe 20% of those fans are children).

     On your own, add up what you think it would cost to run BMS for a season.  Make sure you include: mortgage, purse, real estate taxes, insurance, salaries, workman's comp., social security, equipment, maintenance, fuel, water,  advertising, printing, sanction fees, internet expenses and driver incentives. I don't know what these numbers are.  If I put in wild-ass guesses, I figure I'd probably be on the low side.  Add up what you think those numbers are and see what you think would be needed for average attendance.

Thanks sorry spell check helps me out sometime if I need it or not, sorry I'm a vet came home missing part of my brain, but thanks for all your help running me in the ground thanks some time I miss some things but I think the point come threw?