So cubic says his knowledge comes from common sense. McCarl's comes from racing experience. Decades of it.

I think I'll stick with believing what Terry says!

As much as I hate to say it. The racer is who is pricing themselves out of every form of racing. Does anyone no what that 55 gal of fuel cost.  I personally no of a team that pd ridiculously hi prices per barrel and they were not the only ones. You rarely see a team BUYING track fuel. I talked to a major team owner that at 1 time told me what his costs were compared to mine and he said the FUN of racing was gone. But he kept right up there with Hamilton, Weikert, Dyer and a few others. I asked him how would you control costs. His comment was to make simple rules, 2 3/16 injection, 1 RR compound (at this time mostly all were on goodyears) and at that time everyone was starting the shock war. This particular owner did not follow the shock valving and got out. Afterwards he made the remark that no one out there is building there motors anymore and trailers have shock dyno's. He just shook his head and his comment still puts a smile on my face. "These dumb bastoods  are out there just out spending the next guy and they think that will make them winners" He was and is right. 

I bought fuel for a 360 team during their Nationals from the Darnell oil truck in the infield the last 2 years.  2015 it was $3.90/gal. Last year I just gave them money for tires & fuel so I don't know how much it was then.

That was at Knoxville of course.

I try not to think of the past much.  There's a fine line between historian and dinosaur. 

Stan Meissner

Sport has been dictated by the top dogs for 30 years with little regard for common sense. Kinser, etc, even fought weight rule tooth and nail. Common sense is what is missing most, concerning the RACING (put too big a hole in the air), SAFETY, COST, and the FANS (want to see top dogs from all division racing against each other + not just rich kids + cheaper unlimited engines) Common sense = win + win + win + win. Top dogs continuing to call the shots = lose + lose + lose + lose.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

Were do you get the idea that fans want to see the best 305 guys run against the top 410 guy's at the speed of a typical 305? 99% of the 305 racers I've seen are no where near ready to mix it up on the same track with even the average 410 guy's.

Do you want to slow the late models down too so fans can see the top street stocks & bomber guys run with Bloomer and the rest?

Since I have not seen much support for your ideas here I must conclude your sense is not so common.

Have you ever actually attended a SOD race?

     What relation are you to Robert Altman?

100+ posts and still no answers from the peanut gallery other than more of the same. You guys must really love sucking on the big dogs.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

You're right. Unlimited sprints pale in comparison to overpriced 410s.

Brian Smith Heat Race In-Car Butler Motor Speedway SOD Sprints On Dirt 5/21/16:  https://youtu.be/gxc-NyELXTU

 Engine Pro Sprints On Dirt presented by ARP new Hoosier spec tires impress!

Erie, MI (May 31, 2016) – Last September, when SOD announced its new Hoosier spec tires, there were numerous dire predictions of disaster and mayhem.  Now that a week has gone by since the opening races, one on the biggest, fastest track and the other on a high banked 3/8 mile, how did the predictions fare?  Well, not very well, actually terrible!  Not one of the negative predictions came close to becoming reality.

The fast-car dash on the big, fast Hartford Speedway was an exciting duel between Brian Smith’s 410 and Ryan Ruhl’s 360.  They raced side by side racing, Ruhl passed Smith for the lead, but a bobble out of turn 2 gave Smith a final shot at regaining the lead and he took advantage of it and drove off to the win.  The feature quickly put to rest the prediction that a 360 wouldn’t beat a 410 regardless of the tires.  Once again, contrary to popular opinion, Ruhl’s 360 not only won, but dominated the caution-free race.  Then, at Butler, 410s finish first and second, but a 360 finished third, passing more cars that anyone else in the feature.  It does appear as if SOD has delivered engine parity as promised.

Both nights had exciting racing and did not deliver on the prediction that racing on the new tires would be full of crashes.  Drivers quickly adapted to the new tires and became comfortable with them.  Originally leery of the new tires, numerous drivers gave rave reviews after using them.

Consistent with what Hoosier Racing Tire and SOD had told racers all along, the top finisher both nights opted to use standard right rear (17") and left rear (15") wheel widths even though some had narrower wheels ready to use.  Tire temperatures, as monitored by Hoosier Racing Tire, were well within the optimal range for top performance.  As with any racing tire, tire management is the key to success and air pressure requirements, whether or not to sipe the tires, etc. are all important factors in getting the most out of the new tires.

So why was the racing so good on the new SOD tires?  Maybe the drivers who had the courage to give them a try are more skillful than people give them credit for.  Or maybe the Hoosier Racing Tire engineers were more than capable of transforming SOD’s requirements into a top performing reality.  Both probably contributed to the successful debut of the tires.  Competitors are comfortable with the new SOD tires and are saving 10% per set compared to last year’s tires and tires being run elsewhere.

Yes, there was plenty of talk about the Engine Pro Sprints On Dirt presented by ARP Hartford and Butler races, but none of it had to do with the tires.  Fans will long remember the great racing they saw the first time SOD went beyond limits.  The spec tires are destined to have a significant impact on the sport of sprint car racing for years to come.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

     You've managed to muddy things up enough that no one can tell what your questions are. You must really love throwing insults rather than discussing things like adults. 

I see very few posts regarding this very issue and how it might be solved. I agree with you 100%. The WoO enjoy dictating the 410 rules because that's how they dominate. Sure the PA guys are competitive with them on the PA tracks, but year in and year out the WoO organization and WoO drivers take more purse money away from PA events than stays in PA. It's that way everywhere they travel. Sooner or later the track owners and promoters are going to have to realize that saving the weekly racing must be their priority. It isn't even risky for the track owners and promoters to agree on a set of rules that bring the stupid price of an engine down to a realistic cost. Can the engine builders help with a solution? I would think so. The WoO can't survive selling tickets to fans with a field of 13-15 cars! The WoO would conform to a basic set of rules, if those rules were in place everywhere that counted. There is nothing wrong with a wake up call to the WoO, that their survival should be relevant to the survival of weekly racing venues. In fact, the WoO should begin to realize that their strength and survival is in the end going to be dramatically affected by the strength of weekly venues. The WoO used to run at Knoxville 4 times a year (not counting the Nationals). Not any more. Sooner or later, weekly racing and special events are affected by the basic principal of sprint car racing. That is: Car counts bring fans, fans bring the money, money brings success (and survival)!

+1

     I checked out the SOD website. To be fair, it looks like a fairly successful regional sprint car club. Where is the huge increase in car counts that you say occured when they made rule changes? The results are a little hard to follow, but it appears that they attract approximately 20-25 cars per race. Based on your enthusiam, I would have expected 40-40 cars.

      SOD appears to be a grassroots type racing club for local, hobby racers. If the whole world adopted these rules like you say they should, we could have regional, limited sprint car clubs accross the whole world and Brian Smith could become a household name in the racing world just like Donny Schatz........Or maybe not.


     I agree that the costs are out of control crazy in sprint car racing. When I first started goung to the races in 1973, the car counts were struggling because the costs were out of control crazy. The winning car/driver combinations usually had one thing in common. They had someone with some money willing to dump a lot of it into their hobby. As long as you have hobby racers competing with professional (well financed) racers, you're going to have an uneven playing field. That will never change. 

     What you keep suggesting is the equivilent of leveling the playing field at the Kentucky Derby by having all the entries be shetland ponies with chubby jockeys. Somewhere there might be a call for that type of thing, but I don't know how well it would go over.

ps. Your mother wears army boots, or whatever. 
 

Good job. Sounds like you're coming around a little bit. You are not gagging on them anymore, just kissing their ass.

It's pretty simple. There are currently 400 410 teams and 1500 360 teams. Sprint car racing would be a lot healthier with 2000 unlimited teams.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

    You've gotten pretty good about saying that. You're not very good at proving that in any kind of logical, reasoned way other than to suggest that you are right and therefore everyone else is wrong. You'd make a terrible salesman. Google "meglomania* for some insight about why no one is hopping on your bandwagon.

      If this is such an awesome idea, why is it the only way you can handle questioning or differing opinions is to insult people? Has that tactic worked for you in the past to win friends and influence people?

ps. So's your mother.

How can you call them " unlimited sprints " when you want to limit their speed with little tires so cars with all sizes of motors and all different horsepower run the same basic speed?

Silly- Just call them limited unlimited sprints. That makes about as much sense as the rest of his ideas.

  I'm not sure I agree with your math there fella. More realistic numbers might be half that?

I guess I am not real bright but I can't follow Cubic's logic of saving 410 racing by ending 410 racing. When no one can run them anymore then they will be done and we will have slower cheaper divisions. For now they are the elite and making them slow down to the speed of other divisions is not saving them it is eliminating them. Besides I thought this would all be over since both Central Pa. Sat. tracks had full fields last night and some still are not out yet. By the way all Central Pa. tracks will not buck the Outlaws when one of them likely makes more money on Outlaw shows than they do the rest of their season. The regular season is only for keeping interest up for the Outlaw shows and a few other special shows. I do think it might cost cut costs to eliminnate the 410 cubic inch rule as the Late Models have but not to then slow them down. Just run a 305 if that is all the faster you want them to go.