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Topic: Bryan Clauson has apparently left Tony Stewart Racing
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Page 3 of 4 of 68 replies
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December 18, 2014 at
11:21:11 AM
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Usac expenses vs. WoO expenses- no comparison.
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December 18, 2014 at
11:31:56 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Jack Black on December 18 2014 at 11:21:11 AM
Usac expenses vs. WoO expenses- no comparison.
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fuel for the hauler, hotels, pit passes, meals, etc. don't cost any less.....and the purses are a LOT less...
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December 18, 2014 at
11:34:10 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: dsc1600 on December 18 2014 at 07:48:25 AM
There's no way all of the teams on the circuit are spending anywhere close to 7 figures running the tour. I could see 7 figures as a start from scratch number, but that sounds like Brown trying to justify why despite having the team to run the tour, he chooses to cherry pick locally so he can run 2nd to Schatz at Knoxville. haha
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What exactly did it cost your team to run the WoO tour?
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December 18, 2014 at
12:35:18 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: dsc1600 on December 18 2014 at 07:48:25 AM
There's no way all of the teams on the circuit are spending anywhere close to 7 figures running the tour. I could see 7 figures as a start from scratch number, but that sounds like Brown trying to justify why despite having the team to run the tour, he chooses to cherry pick locally so he can run 2nd to Schatz at Knoxville. haha
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Let's take a look at a "average" week of WoO racing:
(Obviously, these are estimates)
Diesel Fuel: 150 gallons (assuming 900ish miles round trip) $500
Entry fee/pit passes: $200
Food for crew/driver: $200
Methanol: $200
Tires: $400
Engine wear/tear: $400 (assuming 10 nights before freshen-up)
Oil/fluids/consumables: $100
Payroll: $5500 (Driver/crewchief/2 crew)
Shop overhead: $1200
Insurance: $100
Total: $8300
And I'm sure there's stuff I'm missing. That doesn't even take into account hotels/airfare and other travel related expenses. Obviously, some of the shows where they're running 2 or 3 consecutive nights would skew that figure lower. But then longer distance shows would skew it higher.
Here's the kicker...in the above scenario the team hasn't broken a thing! Not a nerf bar, not a wing or a shock. At the Oval Nationals Markus Niemela wadded up a car completely in qualifying. If they were lucky the motor wasn't hurt. The rest of the car was a write-off.
If someone with more knowledge than me wants to criticize/correct my estimates, feel free. But I'm thinking Brian Brown's statement of 1-1.5M isn't too far off the mark.
www.racedayreporter.com
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December 18, 2014 at
01:23:39 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: vande77 on December 18 2014 at 11:31:56 AM
fuel for the hauler, hotels, pit passes, meals, etc. don't cost any less.....and the purses are a LOT less...
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true, but I was thinking motors, tires and less travel.
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December 18, 2014 at
01:25:43 PM
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I thought this thread was about Clauson and TSR splitting not what it costs to run a WoO team.
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December 18, 2014 at
01:29:31 PM
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These Outlaw teams own around 5 engines at one time, and 3 of them are usually fresh. 50k per engine and 10k to 15k to freshen. Thats a lot of dough.
Their tire bills per night are more like $800 too. Fresh RR and LR for qualifying/heat race, and fresh RR LR for feature.
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December 18, 2014 at
01:44:50 PM
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Does anyone know if TSR will field cars in the 2015 USAC Silver Crown Series??
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December 18, 2014 at
03:42:31 PM
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This message was edited on
December 18, 2014 at
03:43:22 PM by vande77
Reply to:
Posted By: Jack Black on December 18 2014 at 11:21:11 AM
Usac expenses vs. WoO expenses- no comparison.
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You are correct, but cut RazzBarlow7's #'s into 1/3 and it's still super expensive for the USAC guys that race for peanuts compared to the WoO (they big expenses don't go down, they still have fuel for the hauler, race fuel, lubricants, tires, hotels, etc., etc.).
So they spend $2767 a race night .... that's still likely losing $$ if the driver gets 50% of the winnings and they win every event.
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December 18, 2014 at
05:51:03 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: RazzBarlow7 on December 18 2014 at 12:35:18 PM
Let's take a look at a "average" week of WoO racing:
(Obviously, these are estimates)
Diesel Fuel: 150 gallons (assuming 900ish miles round trip) $500
Entry fee/pit passes: $200
Food for crew/driver: $200
Methanol: $200
Tires: $400
Engine wear/tear: $400 (assuming 10 nights before freshen-up)
Oil/fluids/consumables: $100
Payroll: $5500 (Driver/crewchief/2 crew)
Shop overhead: $1200
Insurance: $100
Total: $8300
And I'm sure there's stuff I'm missing. That doesn't even take into account hotels/airfare and other travel related expenses. Obviously, some of the shows where they're running 2 or 3 consecutive nights would skew that figure lower. But then longer distance shows would skew it higher.
Here's the kicker...in the above scenario the team hasn't broken a thing! Not a nerf bar, not a wing or a shock. At the Oval Nationals Markus Niemela wadded up a car completely in qualifying. If they were lucky the motor wasn't hurt. The rest of the car was a write-off.
If someone with more knowledge than me wants to criticize/correct my estimates, feel free. But I'm thinking Brian Brown's statement of 1-1.5M isn't too far off the mark.
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Wow, i wonder how Bobby Allen was able to keep 2 cars on the whole tour in 2014 and he did it for less than $1000 !!! Just Kidding of course, but I can gaurentee they did not spend 2 million dollars or 1 million dollars or even $500,000. These guys did it on a shoe string budget and probably had more fun than any other team. Yes Bobby paid his drivers in cheeseburgers but please dont tell me you HAVE to spend a million dollars to fund a Woo car for the season, thats just crazy.
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December 18, 2014 at
06:42:19 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: StaggerLee on December 18 2014 at 05:51:03 PM
Wow, i wonder how Bobby Allen was able to keep 2 cars on the whole tour in 2014 and he did it for less than $1000 !!! Just Kidding of course, but I can gaurentee they did not spend 2 million dollars or 1 million dollars or even $500,000. These guys did it on a shoe string budget and probably had more fun than any other team. Yes Bobby paid his drivers in cheeseburgers but please dont tell me you HAVE to spend a million dollars to fund a Woo car for the season, thats just crazy.
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Yes the Allens are awesome and great for the sport. But how many owners or people in general gonna do what they did to run the schedule? I wouldnt. And judging off the past very few have. When was the last time someone ran the full schedule on that kind of budget? When Bobby himself ran?
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December 18, 2014 at
09:57:11 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: StaggerLee on December 18 2014 at 05:51:03 PM
Wow, i wonder how Bobby Allen was able to keep 2 cars on the whole tour in 2014 and he did it for less than $1000 !!! Just Kidding of course, but I can gaurentee they did not spend 2 million dollars or 1 million dollars or even $500,000. These guys did it on a shoe string budget and probably had more fun than any other team. Yes Bobby paid his drivers in cheeseburgers but please dont tell me you HAVE to spend a million dollars to fund a Woo car for the season, thats just crazy.
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Depends on if you want to win or not. You know TSR and KKR spent a lot of money to win a lot of races while other teams didn't spend as much and didn't win many races. Budgets equal wins.
www.ibracn.com
#PaulsToTheWall
GO SAMMY!
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December 19, 2014 at
12:55:32 PM
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http://dirtcast.com/3kq/sound-off-bryan-clauson-usac-sprint-cars-midgets-battle-at-the-center-preview-121914/
I guess its true.
Anyone going to apologize to IBRACN?
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December 19, 2014 at
01:37:44 PM
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It is kind of ironic that the same people calling for Tony's head in August are now bashing him for shutting down his USAC program. But hell, what do I know?
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December 19, 2014 at
02:09:42 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: IBRACN on December 18 2014 at 09:57:11 PM
Depends on if you want to win or not. You know TSR and KKR spent a lot of money to win a lot of races while other teams didn't spend as much and didn't win many races. Budgets equal wins.
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KKR must have given the lions share to Pittman and TSR gave it to Schatz because Darrah and Kinser were also rans this season. I guess they only had enough money to buy wins for one of their drivers. Im pretty sure Donny was getting it done before he was on Team TSR with a lot less budget and was still dominate. If Donny and crew were on the motter, cjb, big game, or any other touring team the results would have been the same regardless of budget (except for maybe the Shark team because they simply have no budget). I agree you need money to race but I refuse to beleive that you can "buy" wins, you can have all the money in the world with a so so driver and crew and you will not be able to buy wins, ask Jason Sides, he cant buy a top 5. Or how about your favorite Sammy, his budget was pretty fat this season, if you look at his results you would think he was one of the lowest budget teams on the tour according to your budget equals wins theory. Schuchart came damn close to pulling off a couple wins last season and Id be willing to bet he gets a couple this year, the kid can flat out drive the wheels off a sprint car, and when he does win it will mean so much more because he did it with so much less.
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December 19, 2014 at
02:21:36 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: StaggerLee on December 19 2014 at 02:09:42 PM
KKR must have given the lions share to Pittman and TSR gave it to Schatz because Darrah and Kinser were also rans this season. I guess they only had enough money to buy wins for one of their drivers. Im pretty sure Donny was getting it done before he was on Team TSR with a lot less budget and was still dominate. If Donny and crew were on the motter, cjb, big game, or any other touring team the results would have been the same regardless of budget (except for maybe the Shark team because they simply have no budget). I agree you need money to race but I refuse to beleive that you can "buy" wins, you can have all the money in the world with a so so driver and crew and you will not be able to buy wins, ask Jason Sides, he cant buy a top 5. Or how about your favorite Sammy, his budget was pretty fat this season, if you look at his results you would think he was one of the lowest budget teams on the tour according to your budget equals wins theory. Schuchart came damn close to pulling off a couple wins last season and Id be willing to bet he gets a couple this year, the kid can flat out drive the wheels off a sprint car, and when he does win it will mean so much more because he did it with so much less.
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I think the key is not that you can buy wins, but without a decent budget, even a great driver isn't going to do much. Logan had a couple of great runs....he and Jacob also had more than a couple of nights that were over before they finished their time trial laps. I was there for at least two of them. Impressive to see Shark out on the road again with two cars two years in a row, but would love to see what they can do if they get some sponsors to pony up some money for a bigger budget.
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December 19, 2014 at
02:22:14 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: StaggerLee on December 19 2014 at 02:09:42 PM
KKR must have given the lions share to Pittman and TSR gave it to Schatz because Darrah and Kinser were also rans this season. I guess they only had enough money to buy wins for one of their drivers. Im pretty sure Donny was getting it done before he was on Team TSR with a lot less budget and was still dominate. If Donny and crew were on the motter, cjb, big game, or any other touring team the results would have been the same regardless of budget (except for maybe the Shark team because they simply have no budget). I agree you need money to race but I refuse to beleive that you can "buy" wins, you can have all the money in the world with a so so driver and crew and you will not be able to buy wins, ask Jason Sides, he cant buy a top 5. Or how about your favorite Sammy, his budget was pretty fat this season, if you look at his results you would think he was one of the lowest budget teams on the tour according to your budget equals wins theory. Schuchart came damn close to pulling off a couple wins last season and Id be willing to bet he gets a couple this year, the kid can flat out drive the wheels off a sprint car, and when he does win it will mean so much more because he did it with so much less.
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Good point. Money alone doesn't get it
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December 19, 2014 at
02:24:43 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: bighess11 on December 19 2014 at 01:37:44 PM
It is kind of ironic that the same people calling for Tony's head in August are now bashing him for shutting down his USAC program. But hell, what do I know?
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Well since you asked, aparently you do not know the meaning of ironic, here is an example of irony, " I hate that hot headed asshole Tony Stewart but I really respect and admire him for shutting his USAC program down, good job Tony." On the other hand, " I hate that hot headed asshole Tony Stewart and now he's shutting down his USAC program, what a dick, dosnt he care about USAC ? " is not ironic and is pretty much what everyone is saying. Hope this helps.
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December 19, 2014 at
02:39:39 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: StaggerLee on December 19 2014 at 02:09:42 PM
KKR must have given the lions share to Pittman and TSR gave it to Schatz because Darrah and Kinser were also rans this season. I guess they only had enough money to buy wins for one of their drivers. Im pretty sure Donny was getting it done before he was on Team TSR with a lot less budget and was still dominate. If Donny and crew were on the motter, cjb, big game, or any other touring team the results would have been the same regardless of budget (except for maybe the Shark team because they simply have no budget). I agree you need money to race but I refuse to beleive that you can "buy" wins, you can have all the money in the world with a so so driver and crew and you will not be able to buy wins, ask Jason Sides, he cant buy a top 5. Or how about your favorite Sammy, his budget was pretty fat this season, if you look at his results you would think he was one of the lowest budget teams on the tour according to your budget equals wins theory. Schuchart came damn close to pulling off a couple wins last season and Id be willing to bet he gets a couple this year, the kid can flat out drive the wheels off a sprint car, and when he does win it will mean so much more because he did it with so much less.
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Another pissing match....you would be an idiot to not believe that talent is a huge factor but you put a talented driver in a average or below average car and you are lucky to get a few wins. Shatz could win in about every car he would sit in BUT if you put him in a car that has to run on used tires and tired motors, he doens't get 26 wins. Obviously, It all has to come together to make it work but money makes it a lot easier to win. Have you heard the old saying that goes something like "how fast can it go, how much money do you have?" No question Sammy struggled for the past few years...but money allowed him to experiment (probably to much) to try and find a solution to the struggles. Sides, do you really think he has a budget like the KKR or TSR cars?
Bottom line is, money makes any team/drivers/crews job easier and that is why they are always looking for more sponsors.....if you don't think so, then I don't know what to tell you.
www.ibracn.com
#PaulsToTheWall
GO SAMMY!
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December 19, 2014 at
02:49:13 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: shernernum on December 19 2014 at 02:21:36 PM
I think the key is not that you can buy wins, but without a decent budget, even a great driver isn't going to do much. Logan had a couple of great runs....he and Jacob also had more than a couple of nights that were over before they finished their time trial laps. I was there for at least two of them. Impressive to see Shark out on the road again with two cars two years in a row, but would love to see what they can do if they get some sponsors to pony up some money for a bigger budget.
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I dont know man, if you read Ibracins post it clearly says" budget equals wins" and i agree it helps. If Shark racing had a KKR budget Im sure they would have been more consistant and finished alot more races and maybe got a win or two, but I doubt Logan or Jacob would have come close to 26 wins or a championship. All the money in the world cant buy experience or talent, both or which are essential to winning races. Heck, sometimes you can have budget, talent and experience and still not win, Sammy and Kinser had plenty of all 3 and couldnt get the job done, go figure.
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