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Topic: Pittman
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Page 3 of 3 of 58 replies
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September 05, 2013 at
09:34:38 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: dsc1600 on September 05 2013 at 08:31:47 PM
Schatz wouldn't have near the success if he didn't start on the front row all the time. I'd like to see him come from 12th against the posse at the grove or 21st at the nationals. He'd probably get lapped.
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Very good point. He really struggles in traffic especially through the middle when it slicks off.
Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?
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September 06, 2013 at
12:18:30 AM
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Thought I might drop a few stats in for you all to chew on.
Pittman has scored 132 points through Qualifying
Schatz has scored 47 points through Qual... That is advantage Pittman by 85 total qual points.
Pittman has made the dash 47 times vs. Schatz's 43 = Advantage Pittman
Ave start in Dash Pittman - 5.08 Ave Start in Dash for Schatz - 3.95 (However, Schatz started outside the top 10 four extra times.
more to follow.
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September 06, 2013 at
12:37:26 AM
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Pittman's Finish/start position A Feature Schatz's Finish/start position A Feature
pole - 2nd (only one pole) Pole - 3rd (8 starts on pole) 4 wins
2nd start position - 4.1 (10 starts) 1 win 2nd start position - 4.6 (8 starts) 6 wins
3rd start position - 1.6 (5 starts) 3 wins 3rd start position - 1.55 (9 starts) 5 wins
4th start position - 6.5 (6 starts) 1 win 4th start position - 4.0 (2 starts) 0 wins
Schatz has started the features in the front two rows five more times than Pittman.
Pittman's Ave finish when starting in front two rows = 4.09 with 5 wins
Schatz's Ave finish when starting in the front two rows = 3.26 with 15 wins
more to come
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September 06, 2013 at
01:02:09 AM
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Pittman's Finish/start position A feature Schatz's Finish/start position A feature
5th Start Position - 3.0 (3 starts) 1 Win 5th Start Position - 5.8 (5 starts) 1 Win
6th Start Position - 3.8 (6 starts) 1 Win 6th Start Position - 19 (1 start) 0 Wins
7th Start Position - 5.7 (6 starts) 1 Win 7th Start Position - 4.7 (3 starts) 1 Win
8th Start Position - 8.0 (6 starts) 0 Wins 8th Start Position - 9.0 (5 starts) 0 Wins
9th Start Position - 6.5 (2 starts) 0 Wins 9th Start Position - 7.0 (1 start) 0 Wins
10th Start Position - 6.0 (2 starts) 0 Wins 10th Start Position - 8.0 (1 start 0 Wins)
Wins from 5th - 10th Pittman - 3 Schatz - 2
Pittman has 25 starts from 5th - 10th with an average finish of 5.6
Schatz has 16 starts from 5th - 10th with an average finish of 7.6
When Disaster strikes (starting top 10): Pittman has 4 finishes outside the top ten from on track incidents. Ave Finish: 16.0
Schatz has 4 finishes outside the top ten from on track incidents. Ave Finish: 20.5
Advantage Pittman
More to come
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September 06, 2013 at
02:17:38 AM
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Average Finish when not making the dash;
Pittman - 8.9 in 18 starts with 0 wins
Schatz - 6.9 in 22 starts with 2 wins
Deepest win;
Pittman - 7th place
Schatz - 21st (Knoxville Nationals - 50 laps) 12th place Williams Grove - 25 laps
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September 06, 2013 at
02:23:51 AM
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So, What does all that mean???? Well you can make stats say just about what ever you want them to say depending on how you use them. However, some people have made some statements without having any factual information to back it up. Here are some of the facts surrounding this great points battle. Two racers with great talent, very different means of accumulating points.
Personally, regardless of the outcome of the points battle, I would love to see a win account for 10 points more than 2nd place. I am OK with the 5,4,3,2,1 Qual points IF there is a greater emphasis on winning. I felt really bad for Joey a few years ago when he won 20 features and lost the championship. I think that was the beginning of the end for him with KKR.
Anyway, have at it, I would love to hear what people think about the battle with more info in front of everyone.
Cheers,
Dan
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September 06, 2013 at
03:21:48 AM
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This message was edited on
September 06, 2013 at
03:29:15 AM by BIGFISH
What I see is that wins should count for more points and Donny doe's what a champion should do, he win's races.
Through Cottage Grove Speedway; Sept. 4, 2013
Half the lies they tell about me aren't true.
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September 06, 2013 at
12:34:35 PM
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There has been lots of complicated discussion here, made more complicated by my bringing up dash lineups. But I think most people seem to agree that actual wins in races should count more than Qualifying. After all, its not Bonneville. Its about racing in traffic
Therefore Schatz should be in the lead. Felt the same way last year when Sammy had the most wins, but this is even more obvious
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September 06, 2013 at
12:34:43 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: minthess on September 05 2013 at 09:34:38 PM
Very good point. He really struggles in traffic especially through the middle when it slicks off.
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Yes it was terribly obvious at knoxville! Poor fella really needs to work on that!
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September 06, 2013 at
01:12:09 PM
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revjimk - Yes! Double heats, exactly my thinking. Run two sets of heats, second round inverted. Aggregate sets lineup for Dash (12-16 cars) and LCS (remaining cars). Hot lap times used as tie breaker of aggregates.
kmossman - Have wondered why half the program is boring ole qualifying, do you really think it's so bored fans go buy more pretzels and beer? Maybe if heats started at 7 and people could go home at 10 they'd draw bigger crowds, bringing in more ticket revenue.
Seems point system is mostly inclined to make sure the full-timers never miss a race.
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September 06, 2013 at
10:35:56 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: buzz rightrear on September 04 2013 at 06:35:01 PM
points are based on how you finish. main event points weigh more than TT points. you only get 5 points for fast time.
daryn was finishing far better than donny in the beginning of the year. now donny is winning and those first place points are gaining him ground. so he IS being rewarded for winning.
total top tens and top five comparisons don't tell muich, unless you go back and see when those finishes occured in the year. daryn's top finishes came early in the year and donny's are coming later. donny got himself behind by not having good finishes early. his wins are now making it up. you get more points for winning a main than anything else.
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Yeah but if Donny has 12 more wins, same number of top 5's and more top 10's, how in the hell is he not in the point lead by now? The WOO points system is greatly flawed.
A
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September 06, 2013 at
10:53:56 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: snowtown15 on September 05 2013 at 03:57:07 PM
OK, I'll bite! WHo has PLENTY more wins, in more classes this year than Donny Schatz???
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I was also wondering who has more wins in more classes than Donny's 19 sprint and 1 LM win? hmmm?
A
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September 07, 2013 at
01:49:52 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: HoldenCaulfield on September 06 2013 at 10:35:56 PM
Yeah but if Donny has 12 more wins, same number of top 5's and more top 10's, how in the hell is he not in the point lead by now? The WOO points system is greatly flawed.
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because donnie started out slow and it has taken him some time to catch up. donnie and daryn didn't go race for race getting the same number of top fives and top tens. donnie started out the year with worse finishes. as the year has progressed donnie has been catching back up as is being shown now, and it isn't because of qualifying points. donnie has narrowed the points lead dramatically by getting those top five and ten finishes now that he didn't get earlier, along with multiple wins in the past couple of months. and i believe donnies finishes out of the top 10 have been worse thar daryn's finishes out of the top ten.
some of you are just looking at the top 5 and 10 numbers and not considering when each driver got them during the year. the freaking points are damn near tied now because donnie has out performed daryn lately.
you people are making a big issue out of nothing.
in order to get points you have to perform, and you have to perform at every discipline through out the event
daryn performed better at the beginning of the year and donnie is performing better now.
they have both had the opportunity to go out for TT at various positions in the qualifying order. they both have had to deal with a range of track conditions at the time they qualified.
looks to me like the points system is balancing out between a guy who has qualified well and started the season strong, and a guy who hasn't set the track on fire in qualifying and started out slow, but has come on later with wins and strong finishes.
we have two guys who have gotten their points in different ways and at different times of the year, locked into a tight year end battle, and you people are bitching. amazing!
to indy and beyond!!
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September 07, 2013 at
02:59:43 AM
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This message was edited on
September 07, 2013 at
03:17:33 AM by BIGFISH
we have two guys who have gotten their points in different ways and at different times of the year, locked into a tight year end battle, and you people are bitching. amazing!"
Looks like there's a 54 point difference between someone who has fast time and the points for a win with USAC. Whats the spread with the Woo? USAC point system..http://usacracing.com/assets/files/rules/2013/2013Points.pdf
Now I'm not bitching, I just think it's silly that some of you guy's want to crown a new Champ based on qualifying points and not wins.
Half the lies they tell about me aren't true.
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September 07, 2013 at
04:14:55 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: buzz rightrear on September 07 2013 at 01:49:52 AM
because donnie started out slow and it has taken him some time to catch up. donnie and daryn didn't go race for race getting the same number of top fives and top tens. donnie started out the year with worse finishes. as the year has progressed donnie has been catching back up as is being shown now, and it isn't because of qualifying points. donnie has narrowed the points lead dramatically by getting those top five and ten finishes now that he didn't get earlier, along with multiple wins in the past couple of months. and i believe donnies finishes out of the top 10 have been worse thar daryn's finishes out of the top ten.
some of you are just looking at the top 5 and 10 numbers and not considering when each driver got them during the year. the freaking points are damn near tied now because donnie has out performed daryn lately.
you people are making a big issue out of nothing.
in order to get points you have to perform, and you have to perform at every discipline through out the event
daryn performed better at the beginning of the year and donnie is performing better now.
they have both had the opportunity to go out for TT at various positions in the qualifying order. they both have had to deal with a range of track conditions at the time they qualified.
looks to me like the points system is balancing out between a guy who has qualified well and started the season strong, and a guy who hasn't set the track on fire in qualifying and started out slow, but has come on later with wins and strong finishes.
we have two guys who have gotten their points in different ways and at different times of the year, locked into a tight year end battle, and you people are bitching. amazing!
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What difference does it make when they got the wins? Total is Schatz 19 & Pittman 8. simple
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September 07, 2013 at
10:06:07 AM
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Pittman will win the points this year, you can all count on that donny may be good but he is not going to do it this year!
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September 07, 2013 at
12:01:25 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: buzz rightrear on September 07 2013 at 01:49:52 AM
because donnie started out slow and it has taken him some time to catch up. donnie and daryn didn't go race for race getting the same number of top fives and top tens. donnie started out the year with worse finishes. as the year has progressed donnie has been catching back up as is being shown now, and it isn't because of qualifying points. donnie has narrowed the points lead dramatically by getting those top five and ten finishes now that he didn't get earlier, along with multiple wins in the past couple of months. and i believe donnies finishes out of the top 10 have been worse thar daryn's finishes out of the top ten.
some of you are just looking at the top 5 and 10 numbers and not considering when each driver got them during the year. the freaking points are damn near tied now because donnie has out performed daryn lately.
you people are making a big issue out of nothing.
in order to get points you have to perform, and you have to perform at every discipline through out the event
daryn performed better at the beginning of the year and donnie is performing better now.
they have both had the opportunity to go out for TT at various positions in the qualifying order. they both have had to deal with a range of track conditions at the time they qualified.
looks to me like the points system is balancing out between a guy who has qualified well and started the season strong, and a guy who hasn't set the track on fire in qualifying and started out slow, but has come on later with wins and strong finishes.
we have two guys who have gotten their points in different ways and at different times of the year, locked into a tight year end battle, and you people are bitching. amazing!
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Amen! My point exactly in a previous post! They r all running by the same rules.
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September 07, 2013 at
12:50:16 PM
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It isn't just quick times that have Pittman in the slimmest of leads right now. Too many of you are oversimplifying by comparing the broad buckets of top 5's, top 10's, etc. Equal top 10's don't mean equal points.
You'd want to look at the avg finish for those top 10's to understand the point differential. (And avg finish for all the races outside the top 10.) Schatz's wins ARE helping him make up the points. Earlier in the season Pittman consistently had higher avg finish position than Schatz.
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September 07, 2013 at
01:49:39 PM
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last lap of the A donut almost backed himself into the wall (turn four) going for the checkered hankie..would have been bad. caught himself on fire years back coming out of two, don't want to see that ever again!
Ascot was the greatest of all time..
West Capital wasn't half bad either..
Life is good...
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