|
|
|
|
|
Topic: ASCS 305...More information on the way.
|
Email this topic to a friend |
Subscribe to this Topic
| Report this Topic to Moderator
|
|
Page 3 of 3 of 55 replies
|
|
|
|
|
February 23, 2012 at
10:47:39 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
02/23/2012
|
|
Posts:
|
3
|
|
|
The purse is supposed to keep out the 18k engines, the new tires everyweek, the tricked out shocks and new torsion bars. And the engine is designed to turn 6800-7000 and last someone 3 to 4 years. The seals are so that I can work on my car day in and day out knowing that my series tech man is doing all he can do to keep the playing field level. That's why people who want the 305s to work, dont want to see big payouts. ASCS wants to start pumping in the money to get the car count up, but what they are going to get are drivers with less talent moving into a class where all their money can mask the lack of skill. And the the talented drivers that can only afford to race the 305s are pushed out by big money. Seen this exact same thing before when 410's got out of hand and a 360 class was created for the "poor man" to be able to race. And we see how that turned out. I admit. The seals aren't perfect, but they are better than no seals and a $2000 protest option.
But it's all just my opinion....
|
|
|
|
|
February 23, 2012 at
11:11:44 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
05/06/2010
|
|
Posts:
|
49
|
|
|
|
Lots of BS on here from non racers, racers, lying engine builders and good typers. I seriously doubt that a 305 would go over 8,000 with legal springs etc. I have seen some go 8,000 but most are under it. Dick can talk about 8 on the Dyno but the dyno never runs at the tracks. The ASI motors that won at Kilgore were teched and teched and were legal. the drivers didn't say they went over 8,000 or even up to it. That was the really cool typers that make a lot of noise . That was a RaceSaver race and the whole thing was run properly and teching was great. You can't stop superior drivers and set up with good stuff. Practice makes perfect. Some of you are working on perfect typing while others are trying to win on the track.
|
|
|
|
|
February 23, 2012 at
11:43:13 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
03/26/2009
|
|
Posts:
|
96
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: Outsiderear on February 23 2012 at 10:47:39 PM
The purse is supposed to keep out the 18k engines, the new tires everyweek, the tricked out shocks and new torsion bars. And the engine is designed to turn 6800-7000 and last someone 3 to 4 years. The seals are so that I can work on my car day in and day out knowing that my series tech man is doing all he can do to keep the playing field level. That's why people who want the 305s to work, dont want to see big payouts. ASCS wants to start pumping in the money to get the car count up, but what they are going to get are drivers with less talent moving into a class where all their money can mask the lack of skill. And the the talented drivers that can only afford to race the 305s are pushed out by big money. Seen this exact same thing before when 410's got out of hand and a 360 class was created for the "poor man" to be able to race. And we see how that turned out. I admit. The seals aren't perfect, but they are better than no seals and a $2000 protest option.
But it's all just my opinion....
|
68-7000 and last 3-4 years? I turn mine almost a grand more and it was built early in '06. The only thing I've had to do to it was change intake gaskets (started leaking) oil pump and shaft (broke) and springs (worn out.) Anyone that only turns theirs 7 grand is leaving a lot of gear on the table.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
February 24, 2012 at
09:56:07 AM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
02/23/2012
|
|
Posts:
|
3
|
|
|
This message was edited on
February 24, 2012 at
09:57:49 AM by Outsiderear
Reply to:
Posted By: racrguy on February 23 2012 at 11:43:13 PM
68-7000 and last 3-4 years? I turn mine almost a grand more and it was built early in '06. The only thing I've had to do to it was change intake gaskets (started leaking) oil pump and shaft (broke) and springs (worn out.) Anyone that only turns theirs 7 grand is leaving a lot of gear on the table.
|
turned ours 6800 and the engine lasted five years, over 100 nights, never rebuilt, never changed springs and was still winning races just a few weeks before it blew. It finally let go after I decided not to put enough oil in it like a dumba**. You can win races without turning it to tight. We won a race last year at Lonestar and only turned 67 in the feature. This is what I am talking about. The mind set of "I'll just run the piss out of it, even though its not really supposed to, cause I can afford to fix it" is whats gunna kill this class. I understand that your talking about just the springs, but if you think about what your asking out of steel valves and 3/8's studs, your really asking alot. Yeah, these little motors will go tighter than that, I have seen a tach that read 8600 (it was not intended to get that high, the guy was freaking out) but that dont mean that they are supposed to. I may be leaving alot of gear on the table, but I've had pretty good luck loading my motor in the trailer still running, and I like that. If you look back at the last couple of years, you notice an increase in the amount of engines letting go. Dont get me wrong, I NEVER want to see some ones engine blow, it worse than wrecking as far as I am concerned. but if this trend of turning them up tighter and tighter continues, the problem will get worse, Until some decides to screw it up and change the rules, and thats when 305's being an affordable class goes away. Cause that will just open the door to more spending.
but, like I said... This is all just my opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
February 24, 2012 at
10:07:20 AM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
02/13/2010
|
|
Posts:
|
61
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: Outsiderear on February 23 2012 at 10:47:39 PM
The purse is supposed to keep out the 18k engines, the new tires everyweek, the tricked out shocks and new torsion bars. And the engine is designed to turn 6800-7000 and last someone 3 to 4 years. The seals are so that I can work on my car day in and day out knowing that my series tech man is doing all he can do to keep the playing field level. That's why people who want the 305s to work, dont want to see big payouts. ASCS wants to start pumping in the money to get the car count up, but what they are going to get are drivers with less talent moving into a class where all their money can mask the lack of skill. And the the talented drivers that can only afford to race the 305s are pushed out by big money. Seen this exact same thing before when 410's got out of hand and a 360 class was created for the "poor man" to be able to race. And we see how that turned out. I admit. The seals aren't perfect, but they are better than no seals and a $2000 protest option.
But it's all just my opinion....
|
a racesaver engine is designed to turn 6400 not 68-70, which is usually the norm. But you better have good rods.
|
|
|
|
|
February 24, 2012 at
11:40:16 AM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
10/09/2010
|
|
Posts:
|
428
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: TracKing on February 23 2012 at 11:11:44 PM
Lots of BS on here from non racers, racers, lying engine builders and good typers. I seriously doubt that a 305 would go over 8,000 with legal springs etc. I have seen some go 8,000 but most are under it. Dick can talk about 8 on the Dyno but the dyno never runs at the tracks. The ASI motors that won at Kilgore were teched and teched and were legal. the drivers didn't say they went over 8,000 or even up to it. That was the really cool typers that make a lot of noise . That was a RaceSaver race and the whole thing was run properly and teching was great. You can't stop superior drivers and set up with good stuff. Practice makes perfect. Some of you are working on perfect typing while others are trying to win on the track.
|
Not BS at all. Just a bunch of people that have a GOOD thing going, class is growing, putting fans in the stands getting young drivers signed up and then others want to go MESS it up. Just as before it is happening again If ASCS is such good stewards to sprint car racing then adopt the race saver rules and keep them sealed. If those that don't run a race saver and ate LEGAL then I challenge you to seal them up! What's the difference? If your Legal there lies the big QUESTION . Always a select few that acre it up and when the class fails they are no where to be heard blowing there horn ASCS should stay with their successful 360 program
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
February 24, 2012 at
11:57:03 AM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
10/07/2011
|
|
Posts:
|
10
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: Desflur on February 24 2012 at 11:40:16 AM
Not BS at all. Just a bunch of people that have a GOOD thing going, class is growing, putting fans in the stands getting young drivers signed up and then others want to go MESS it up. Just as before it is happening again If ASCS is such good stewards to sprint car racing then adopt the race saver rules and keep them sealed. If those that don't run a race saver and ate LEGAL then I challenge you to seal them up! What's the difference? If your Legal there lies the big QUESTION . Always a select few that acre it up and when the class fails they are no where to be heard blowing there horn ASCS should stay with their successful 360 program
|
Just trying to figure this one out. So what you are saying is if a Sprint series uses a Sealed motor there will be no cheating going on, just thought I would let you know a secret. People that build motors and seal motors will do anything you pay them to do or if your a really good friend of the builder or the person who is sealing a motor, you can get what ever your wallet can pay for. There has been sealed motors found illegal at numerous tracks around the nation and nothing was ever done about it to the owners of the motors nor to the person who sealed the motor. If you think there is no motors out there that are illegal today because they are sealed by somebody, vote for Ronald Regan and he will be the next president. By the way, it says young drivers signing up every day, for what series, the one where they have 24 cars a show and 15 are at every show, that means that the new ones will have a chance at racing in the other 9 spots right along with another 40 drivers.
|
|
|
|
|
February 24, 2012 at
12:12:11 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
09/15/2005
|
|
Posts:
|
5180
|
|
|
|
Maybe this will help clear the air a bit.
Isn’t the purpose of sanctioning bodies to offer a platform
or rules, purse structures, benefits; etc. that drivers and promoters choose to either go with, or not go
with?
If so, then ultimately, it is those two variables (drivers
and promoters) that drive whether a specific sanctioning bodies ‘package’
(rules, purse structure; etc.) works, or doesn’t work.
So in this case, if you, the drivers, decide you want to
race for one set of rules or the other; that means you are going to support one
sanctioning body and not the other.
And if a track promoter picks one sanctioning over another,
then you as a driver decide to support them, then you are ultimately the one sealing
the fate of your own division’s racing future, as you are agreeing to the
package set by the sanctioning body.
Conversely, if you as a driver choose not to support them
because of which option a promoter chooses, then that will seal their fate for
hosting future events of that type of rules package…whatever that brand of sanctioning
is.
|
|
|
|
|
February 24, 2012 at
01:16:33 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
10/09/2010
|
|
Posts:
|
428
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: Dodirt on February 24 2012 at 11:57:03 AM
Just trying to figure this one out. So what you are saying is if a Sprint series uses a Sealed motor there will be no cheating going on, just thought I would let you know a secret. People that build motors and seal motors will do anything you pay them to do or if your a really good friend of the builder or the person who is sealing a motor, you can get what ever your wallet can pay for. There has been sealed motors found illegal at numerous tracks around the nation and nothing was ever done about it to the owners of the motors nor to the person who sealed the motor. If you think there is no motors out there that are illegal today because they are sealed by somebody, vote for Ronald Regan and he will be the next president. By the way, it says young drivers signing up every day, for what series, the one where they have 24 cars a show and 15 are at every show, that means that the new ones will have a chance at racing in the other 9 spots right along with another 40 drivers.
|
Oh I know there have been and will continue to be those that will do something illegal with a sealed 305. If you can't handle the SST sorry cause they put on a great show with great drivers . No one has said you gotta race SST. What the theme seems to be is people don't want the cost to get out of hand so sprint car numbers go down.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
February 25, 2012 at
12:42:19 AM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
03/26/2009
|
|
Posts:
|
96
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: Outsiderear on February 24 2012 at 09:56:07 AM
turned ours 6800 and the engine lasted five years, over 100 nights, never rebuilt, never changed springs and was still winning races just a few weeks before it blew. It finally let go after I decided not to put enough oil in it like a dumba**. You can win races without turning it to tight. We won a race last year at Lonestar and only turned 67 in the feature. This is what I am talking about. The mind set of "I'll just run the piss out of it, even though its not really supposed to, cause I can afford to fix it" is whats gunna kill this class. I understand that your talking about just the springs, but if you think about what your asking out of steel valves and 3/8's studs, your really asking alot. Yeah, these little motors will go tighter than that, I have seen a tach that read 8600 (it was not intended to get that high, the guy was freaking out) but that dont mean that they are supposed to. I may be leaving alot of gear on the table, but I've had pretty good luck loading my motor in the trailer still running, and I like that. If you look back at the last couple of years, you notice an increase in the amount of engines letting go. Dont get me wrong, I NEVER want to see some ones engine blow, it worse than wrecking as far as I am concerned. but if this trend of turning them up tighter and tighter continues, the problem will get worse, Until some decides to screw it up and change the rules, and thats when 305's being an affordable class goes away. Cause that will just open the door to more spending.
but, like I said... This is all just my opinion.
|
As you very well know, LSS is a different animal than the bullrings in the region. Of all the people that "can afford to fix it" I hardly fit in that group, if I break an engine I'm done for the year. What problem are you talking about getting worse, exactly? The guy that was running 3rd-4th in the sprint nationals a majority of the race last year I can assure you didn't have 18k in his engine. I've heard of some other people breaking studs, but my heads have the original valves, original studs, and I haven't broken one yet. Out of the group that I run with I think we've had 3-4 engines let go in the amount of time I've been running with them. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that in order to make one live is to only turn it 68-7k isn't entirely true.
|
|
|
|
|
February 27, 2012 at
08:40:30 AM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
09/01/2011
|
|
Posts:
|
77
|
|
|
Sst motor might be good for toilet bowl racing . Bring them to a real fast race track like knoxville where it is flat out every lap at 7200 they are not going to last ray revernham tried it blew up in heat race.
|
|
|
|
|
February 27, 2012 at
09:31:11 AM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
10/09/2010
|
|
Posts:
|
428
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: zerorules on February 27 2012 at 08:40:30 AM
Sst motor might be good for toilet bowl racing . Bring them to a real fast race track like knoxville where it is flat out every lap at 7200 they are not going to last ray revernham tried it blew up in heat race.
|
And that's why you have 15,000 $$$$ motors and up trying to run at Knoxville. That cost right there defeats the purpose. If you have that much in a 305 then jump into a 360. Your reference to toilet bowl tracks will have better skilled drivers than running some big straightaway track. I like all tracks but don't think Knoxvilke is King for the 305 class. Go run Eagle and try your skill there or Husets.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
February 28, 2012 at
01:27:52 AM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
03/26/2009
|
|
Posts:
|
96
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: zerorules on February 27 2012 at 08:40:30 AM
Sst motor might be good for toilet bowl racing . Bring them to a real fast race track like knoxville where it is flat out every lap at 7200 they are not going to last ray revernham tried it blew up in heat race.
|
I turned mine 7600 at LSS all night long not lifting until something other than the green was out.
|
|
|
|
January 28, 2015 at
10:40:12 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
12/06/2004
|
|
Posts:
|
191
|
|
|
|
So how has this all played out??
Sprints rule
|
|
|
|
|
January 28, 2015 at
11:00:58 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
12/14/2013
|
|
Posts:
|
43
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: Ricky111 on February 23 2012 at 11:18:18 AM
The problem you bring going with an unsealed motor is teching. You are going to have cheating, or attmepted cheating if the motor is sealed or not. I know of one person that has a sealed motor that is cheated. These guys sealing these motors are not the birghtest people in the world. As long as you keep the heads untouched (no porting), no TI, and no roller cams you will keep the cost down. You can't tell people they can't buy a nice bottom end. You just can't do that. Injectors are going to keep getting more and more out of control, but there is no stopping that now. They should have restricted that in the very beginning. I'm sure the SST put on a good show with what they have to offer. I would offer up that Smiley let anyone who wants to come and race race at the Devils Bowl one time. I wonder who would win. A weekly SST guy or an outsider. SST is a club, and that's all that will ever be. I personally would rather race against Ramey, George White, Melton, Estes, etc.... at Cowtown and KSP. At least if you win there you know you did something, and not beat some guy that should have quit racing 20 years ago. Just my opinion.
|
Who are you to judge who should have quit driving 20 years ago? All your arguments lost credibility with that statement.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
January 28, 2015 at
11:01:48 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
12/14/2013
|
|
Posts:
|
43
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: Ricky111 on February 23 2012 at 11:18:18 AM
The problem you bring going with an unsealed motor is teching. You are going to have cheating, or attmepted cheating if the motor is sealed or not. I know of one person that has a sealed motor that is cheated. These guys sealing these motors are not the birghtest people in the world. As long as you keep the heads untouched (no porting), no TI, and no roller cams you will keep the cost down. You can't tell people they can't buy a nice bottom end. You just can't do that. Injectors are going to keep getting more and more out of control, but there is no stopping that now. They should have restricted that in the very beginning. I'm sure the SST put on a good show with what they have to offer. I would offer up that Smiley let anyone who wants to come and race race at the Devils Bowl one time. I wonder who would win. A weekly SST guy or an outsider. SST is a club, and that's all that will ever be. I personally would rather race against Ramey, George White, Melton, Estes, etc.... at Cowtown and KSP. At least if you win there you know you did something, and not beat some guy that should have quit racing 20 years ago. Just my opinion.
|
Who are you to judge who should have quit driving 20 years ago? All your arguments lost credibility with that statement.
|
|
|
