Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

No! no! It can't be!!! It would be the end of the world as we know it. The sky would fall, and all the trees would be broken!!!! We cannot change sprintcar racing until everyone involved is broke! If sprintcars utilized smaller tires, why, they'd be 1/10th of a second slower. EVERYONE would notice, and everyone would stop going to sprintcar races in an instant!!

A smaller tire would make the racing cheaper if the tire is cheaper. NCRA went from 18" wide to 16" wide just like ASCS. The tire still costs $195 and wears out just as quick. Didn't save me anything. How about 12" RR tire for $125. That would save me money. It would take different wheel width, that's why they changed to 16" wide. Can still use the same wheels.

When you say "We are considering" How exaclty are you involved in any of this????

Do you have a car? Are you included in the decision making process?

I don't get on hoseheads very often but everytime I do I see your stupid posts about how your trying to save sprint car racing.... Who are you anyway? Do you really have a stake in this or are you just a fan?

"We are considering the 105 X 16 Hoosier Medium for 2010" is copied verbatim from the Knoxville Rulebook.

There are only two reasons to be against it...

A.) You can't drive.

B.) Money is no object.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

Hoosier themselves is one of the biggest culprits in this tire debate if you look closely. They have went and 'bought' track sanctions that make it illegal to run anything but a hoosier, thus limiting competition, which also lends itself to greed and high tire prices for everyone involved.

On the size issue, I also think unhooking the car is the right direction as well. smaller tires will do that. However, the ASCS medium isn't the answer in any way shape or form, they suck.......terribly. They blister easily with any heat, siping causes them to tear and chunk, it's just a bad compound in my opinion.

There are many solutions, of course, but allowing other makes of tires back into the fold is the first step in the right direction. Tires are the only thing that you aren't allowed a choice. Well, and ASCS heads, but thats for a different debate altogether.

Get the hoosier monopoly out the door and I bet prices would come down some rapidly. Hell if for no other reason you would have a choice who you gave your money to.

44H

I agree, most everyone would rather see an open manufacturer other than maybe Hoosier themselves and the tracks and organizations who are getting paid off by them. I wish they would just go to a simple tire hoop rule like the late models myself, with about a 100x15" right rear and a 13" wide modified left rear. A smaller tire would necessitate a little harder compound anyway.

But a smaller Hoosier spec tire is still a step in the right direction regardless over the current Hoosier spec tire they are running now. As far as compound goes, I haven't heard of much of a complaint with the different Hoosier compounds available myself. When it gets right down to it however, everyone having to run on the same tire is like everyone having to run on the same race track.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

A,B my ass....You can't seem to answer the question I asked you why is that?

To afraid to admit that you have nothing to do with sprint car racing other than be a "Thinks he knows it all fan" That isn't really involved in racing!!!

I know what the rule book says I read the rules but I asked you and I'll ask again and we'll see if you answer it or just continue to spout of nonsense like you really have a clue about the true costs of racing.

When you say "We are considering" How exaclty are you involved in any of this????

Do you have a car? Are you included in the decision making process?

I don't get on hoseheads very often but everytime I do I see your stupid posts about how your trying to save sprint car racing.... Who are you anyway? Do you really have a stake in this or are you just a fan?

I agree with you on being able to choose the brand you want to run but I don't see competiton bringing down price on Hoosier tires.

There are other forms of racing that use Hoosier among other brands like American Racer and tires are still priced at a premium.

Take Micro Sprints for example. A right rear still runs $120 and considering its size compared to full size sprint cars and late models the price is rather high even with competition.

Doug Auld article Open to tire changes?

(June 2005 SprintCar & Midget)

Just a few short years ago, the mention of a potential addition to a 410ci winged sprint car rulebook would be cause for a barrage of negative emotion from almost any team. Even the inevitable weight rule was spoken of, by many, as the beginning of the end of sprint car racing as we knew it. Well, attitudes seem to have changed.

Personally, I give the weight rule far more credit as a success than most in the sport tend to. Those titanium bolt kits, high-dollar lightweight hoses and holes drilled dangerously in critical parts of racecars are no longer the norm. Furthermore, the safety seats being used by racers would have never become popular had the weight rule not been instated. Curtis Boyer and Dean Jacobs are two drivers that probably would not be with us today without those seats.

In talking with winged sprint car teams these days, it is apparent that many teams – not all, but many – have been taking a hard look at the current state of the sport and have begun to realize that perhaps we really do need to further address the overwhelming expense of racing a 410 winged sprint car. And, there is nothing more frustrating to a team than towing several states only to fall in line on a locked-down racetrack.

The change in attitude I personally have encountered is huge. Again, it was not that long ago that some of us in this publication, along with a handful of outspoken promoters, that suggested that we needed to address the issues of cost and quality of racing were overwhelmingly regarded as misguided.

Emmett Hahn inspired the current 410 weight rule, and significantly raised the level of discussion regarding tires, wings, heads and a possible compression rule, as he formed the Sprint Bandit Series. Alan Kreitzer implemented a successful tire rule at Williams Grove, allowing teams to use the same right rear tire throughout the entire night, saving money and taking an advantage from high-dollar teams that could afford new rubber each time the car hit the track. The Outlaws instated a somewhat similar and equally successful tire rule. Teams have begun to realize that a few rules – the right rules – may not be the threat they so feared.

While a compression rule seems to have some support, there is still debate among teams regarding whether or not the rule would, in actuality, significantly reduce engine purchase and/or rebuild costs, creating more teams and allowing low-dollar teams to be more competitive.

If there is one change that teams currently seem most open to right now, it appears to be a narrower right rear tire. Certainly the tires and the wings are the two areas that could have the most impact on cost, as well as the quality of the racing. When every bit of horsepower is getting to the track, then a high-dollar engine program is imperative, and the low-budget teams might as well not even roll off the trailer.

The solution, to this point, has been to attempt to slick off the middle of the track, while trying to maintain a top and a bottom, in order to force two grooves and side-by-side action, and eliminate the middle-groove freight train. The problem is: There are very few track preparers who can pull that off on a consistent basis, and more often fans are subjected to a dusty, dry racetrack with either no top or no bottom. And, screwing up the middle does nothing to attack the cost of fielding a sprint car.

A narrow rear tire – at least right rear, if not both rear tires – does two things. If the contact patch is smaller, the cars will break loose more easily, making it more challenging to get horsepower to the ground. If the car doesn’t stick as hard and racers have to work the throttle, the potential for passing and the importance of racing talent over engine program are increased, while making lower-dollar teams more competitive against high buck teams. At the same time, there is nothing tougher on an engine than a locked-down winged sprint car, Breaking the tires loose will cause a lot let wear on engines, potentially saving money on rebuilds and part stress failures.

When I talk to racers and car owners these days, most seem to feel that – when it comes to locking down the cars – the wings are actually not as significant as the rubber they’re running. So, looking at tire width and rubber compound seems to make a whole lot of sense.

There are still those teams (and fans) who would be against tire changes, and they’ll certainly argue that we’ve seen some good racing and car counts just this year. And, I agree that there are still some great winged sprint car races, however the percentage of "awesome" races versus yawners is not what it could be. In addition, while the weight rule has helped teams stay in the same arena as the few high-dollar teams, the high-dollar engine is still king…and the engine rebuild programs still cost way too much. As for car counts, while Volusia Speedway Park saw over 50 good teams in February for Woo and All Stars shows, there were 117 good late model teams across the state for an NARA race.

In talking to teams, many would be open to a narrower tire. Hopefully, sanctioning bodies and racetracks will take advantage of the opportunity.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

ASCS FOR AUS 

(From Jerry Reigle column in March 24th Area Auto Racing News)

Lance Dewease knew there were factors that he couldn’t control that led to lack of qualifying. In fact, no one, or at least anyone walking the pit area, can control the cold conditions that struck Central Pennsylvania last weekend, which led to locked-down race tracks.

“The tracks aren’t slick enough to pass yet,” Dewease said. “Once we get into some warmer weather, we’ll see the change.

“It is something we can’t control. We’re starting at the rear of the field for heat races and it is gas-and-go on these tracks. It is fast and no one is passing in the heats. Do you think Fred Rahmer forgot how to drive?”

However, Dewease did make one strong case for change. It’s the tires.

“Fact is, the tires are too wide,” Dewease said. “We need to do something to loosen up the cars, so we can get back to racing them.

“That is something they can start to look at changing. They’re too wide and when we get on the gas, they inflate and stand up. It’s something like you see on a dragster.”

Dewease’s case was well said.

Over the past seasons, there has been much debate on how to loosen-up Sprint Cars, whether it be with the tires or top wing.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

That was then, and this is now. I've always been in non wing county, and a non wing snob..LOL.. The cars today don't have bolt on cages etc like the ones your talking about did. Heck, I think I was out of high school before they even put those on. We're not killing them off like fly's, that's why they have allowed younger drivers (kids realy) into 410 non wing sprinters these day's.

What kind of advancement do you have when you are limited with a 410? Oh, I know, it's the advancement of the cost of one $$. Go open comp, and get some of the innovation back into the sport.

new-parts, give us the skinny about how a open comp engine and a reasonable tire width, would bring down the cost, bring out more cars, and increase the excitement. I know you have given it a lot of thought for some years now, and I have always agreed with you.

Did you winged guy's know that when you start talking about why a diver in a new car, with a new crew, and a different crew chief is having problems, it sound like NASCRAP stuff ? Man I used to go to winged races, but there are very few tracks that I would go see them on nowadays. You need to worry about bringing the driver back into it more. You have a load of top notched drivers who run in the middle of the pack, and they will always be in the middle of the pack because of equipment.. Or lack of it, I should say

Kenny

Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. 

" I think that today if the Wings are took off the 400 Sprints we may go into a period were we kill and badly hurt driver untill they get it right .You got to admit a wing does slow down a fliping car. I seen them flip cars 300 ft or more in the mid 60s and 70s.. You dont see that alot now days. And the softer tires slow down a fliping car also.." From redbandana

I was looking right into the cockpit with about 3 flips to go, and I do mean right in, and he was as steady as rock in there. I don't know how many feet this was

, but I'm sure Dave thought it was more than enough..LOL

Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. 

(Taken from Sept 29th Area Auto Racing News)

AARN: Late Models seem to be thriving right now. The rules are standard, car counts are huge and there are more big paying races. I know you grew up in a Late Model household. Do you ever wish that you would have pursued late Models?

Lance Dewease: Right now, I do. Twenty to 30 years ago, Late Model racing was where we’re headed. It was dying when I started racing Sprint Cars. They had wedge bodies and big tires. Look at what happened with those rules. It went dead. Now they went to a standard body and smaller tires and the sport is thriving.

AARN: Why are the tires being blamed for so many ills?

Lance Dewease: We’re averaging five to eight races on a rear end, then we need to change the ring and pinions. It’s about the down force. The tires are growing and that makes everything else quicker. People don’t understand the pressure it has on drivelines and U-joints. The vibration inside the car is incredible, and it’s related to down force and how the tires are reacting.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

2009 World of Outlaws Late Model Tire Rule

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

no matter what rules you would make the teams with the money will do the R and R work to find the speed you would almost have to have rules that restricted all of the parts on the whole car

No, if they limited traction (i.e., tires and downforce) then they could open the rules up.

The Late Models run unlimited engines and their popularity and car counts surpass Sprint Car racings. The limited sprint concept hurts Sprint Car racing.

LESS TRACTION, LESS RULES NEEDED.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

Goodyear is testing next week or the week after. Little competition never hurts.