Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I completely agree with your last sentence.

I do not l;ike WOO starting fast TT on pole for heat races.  They win 95% of races and often by 2 seconds over 2 nd place.  Give them more points for the TT and invert first 2 rows.  If they are so fast, maybe they can pass someomne.  All they have to do is get 2 nd place from outside second row to make dash.

Have seen plenty of side by side racing and passing with the Outlaws format since they did away with the invert. It has basically proven inverts are not needed. There have been countless battles for position involving multiple cars, last lap passes for the win, close finishes, and guys coming from the back. The only reason people don't like it is the illusion that the inverts make things more exciting. They don't. They are stupid.

You bought a little race car and now you are against inverts. Inverts can and have made racing exciting in all kinds of racing divisions. Racing will always be about catching and passing cars, 

I will say this. WoO wants to protect there teams that follow the series. TT's in a sense do just that, even with the pts system in place. Sure you get the occasional team that fell on bad luck, but it's the same thing over and over, the fast guys are usually up front. I say you totally eliminate TT's, give all cars 2 hot lap sessions in reverse order due to track conditions. Make those sessions 8 to 10 laps, then maybe you mite see some passing in the feature. I also feel all woo features should be 40 laps. Then set ups come into play because you have to save those tires for the end of the race. You rarely see that anymore. The funny part about this, all have some good idea's, It's NEVER going to change, carry on.

Inverts are good.  Finding the perfect format for inverts is the issue. Most of us like good racing so that is what we want. It may be different for local racing and traveling shows.

If WoO wants to "protect" the loyal traveling team give them more tow money and boost the points fund using participation as an incentive. This is not rocket science to some of us. To others it is. Mostly mathmatics and logic.

However the almighty dollar does come into play sadily.

You're 100% correct, it is about protecting the teams.  I don't blame the WOO for this either (lets face it it's not just the WOO who protect their top stars, EVERY racing series does this in one way or another), it's not a good look for the WOO if their drivers aren't constantly up front.  If they are consistently getting their asses kicked by the locals, what would be the hype with seeing the WOO?  The casual fan might say "Why should I spend $40 on a ticket when next week I can spend $20 on a ticket and see the same winner?"  Also you could have WOO teams saying "WTF?  I've spent half a million dollars on wrecked race cars because I'm starting behind people who shouldn't be in a road car, this doesn't make sense to run with the WOO anymore."  I get why it's the way it is but that doesn't change the fact that before the A feature, it's a pretty boring event.

Take the top wing off and you're likely to have a race with a winner from deeper in the field

I'd like to agreee with you but in today's non wing world there are not that many winners coming from deeper in the fields (except Larson) due to the cars being so evenly matched. We'll never see the wings go away but how about making them smaller. You still can have the rollover protection of the wing but it doesn't need to be so damn big. I find it interesting that when a track gets slick and the wing speed goes away thats when you see who knows how to drive a car and set up a car. Of course if the wings get smaller there will prpbably be no more new track records which is obviously important to someone other than me.

I think that the fact that the cars are all so close in speed makes it real difficult to come thru the field. Set up, restarts and a little luck come into play as well. I think the races could be longer to give the drivers time to come to the front.

Well with your first point you once again prove what happens to people when they assume. I was against inverts and thought they were stupid long before I bought a little racecar,  which I don't drive by the way. I never understood inverts to begin with and when WoO went away from them in either 16 or 17 I was saying then that the racing was better.  Didn't get that little car until 21. And racing and any other form of competition is about 1 thing and 1 thing only, winning. Sure somethings can be fun, and there can be lessons taught and possibly some entertainment value but it is and should be about winning.  And the winner should be the best or the best should at least have the best shot at winning. Plus races with inverts have not shown me that they are anymore exciting than without and all you have to do is watch. It's a stupid made up illusion that people have etched in their brains that someone coming from the rear wins and it hardly happens. It's great when it does but it doesn't happen on a consistent basis. No one will ever convince me otherwise that the invert is the equivalent of coming in at halftime and saying,  "hey we know you're up by 21pts but, we need to make this game exciting for the people who paid to come here. And that poor team, they can't help that they are undersized, stupidly coach, and aren't as good as you but darn it they should have a chance of winning too. So we're going to put them ahead by 14pts but you scored 21 so just do what you have been doing and you should still win but at least this will entertain those idiots in the stands who know nothing about the sport." The invert is just 1 move away from basically giving everyone trophies

Did you see Larson win from 10th at USAC Turkey nite?

"  If they are consistently getting their asses kicked by the locals, what would be the hype with seeing the WOO? "

Well not "constantly" ( tho it was close a few years back), but locals beating WoO sure sells lots of tix in  Pennsyltucky

Outlaws usually win in other areas, but they still seem to sell plenty of tix too...

And? Is there a point? Winner came from 10th cool. Guess what, that has happened in races with no invert as well. Sheldon, Macedo, Sweet, Gravel, and others have all come from around there or even further back and have won. Some have transfered from the B and advanced 15, 19, 20+ spots. You do NOT need to have an invert for this to happen. It has been proven time and time again. You just have to actually watch the races and get over whatever dumb narrative has been taught that inverts produce better racing. They don't. It's the same racing, the same cars on the track. And if anything it is an even better feat and entertaining when someone comes from the back with no invert because it shows hey you missed it at the beginning of the night but were able to figure it out at the end and not one element of racing is more important than the others. 

"Is there a point?

Yes, & its pretty simple

Winning from the back is more likely if the fastest car doen't start on the pole

So now we don't know how to watch a race and have been taught a stupid narritive about how racing really should be. Wow, thanks for opening my eyes. How do you suppose drivers learn the art of racing? I firmly believe a driver will improve their skills when they learn how to pass others not start in front of them, although having some big dogs chasing you gives you another type of learning experience. I can't think of a good  driver or team that doesn't love to catch the competition  and pass them, if they can't they work on their program. Maybe you would enjoy drag racing, #1 fast guy races #16 during eliminations.

This guy's turned into another Strawser.  It's ok that he doesn't like inverts but if you don't agree with him, you don't know anything about the sport as far as he's concerned.  I've seen plenty of people in his situation, they buy a racecar.  Then they struggle because it's harder than they thought.  Some good people (lots of racers out there like this and I've never completly understood because they're helping people beat them, but they're at every track which is great) will help them out or they pay someone to help them .  That person is grateful and will believe everything that person says.  And the next thing you know they're "smarter" than every other person who doesn't race.  My only advice to a guy like this would be, don't be a total asshole because a day will come when you can't afford that racecar anymore and then some other arrogant asshole will come along and buy a racecar and tell you that you don't know anything about racing.  But he's smarter than me so I'm sure he's got all that figured out.

Owning a race car does not make a person smart. If anything the opposite is true. Owning and running a winning race team is even questionable intelligence wise.  Most great sponsors of teams have successful businesses that have money to spend freely.

You do realize they can still pass without an invert right? All of you automatically see no invert and ASSume there is no passing. You can go watch about 6-7 years of races and watch guys passing all throughout the field with the outlaws. So yes you're confirming it's a stupid narrative.  Also,  the drivers do not start in the same spot every race nor will they start upfront every race. They will learn the art of racing because they will have to pass cars that are equal to better than them which will, Holy crap wait for it, make them better. It does not take any skill to pass a car that is a second off the pace. All the morons on here can do that. We all do it everyday on the freeway. The kids at our track even tell us it's easy to pass cars that are slower than them. They get better competing against cars equal to better than them. Worst race this year was the Kings Royal. A race that is heavily inverted.  Yes track conditions sucked but if the invert was as great and wondrous as all you make it out to be, there should have been passing. There wasn't,  it sucked. The invert actually made it worse because it left fast skilled guys out of the show that might have actually put on a show. Again, inverts are stupid. You can actually watch the races instead of going, they don't invert me no likey me going to not watch must have invert to be good

Not really but go ahead and throw your pitty party.