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Topic: How Much Longer can Schatz put up with Average Results before he Starts his Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
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revjimk
June 30, 2022 at 09:35:52 AM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 6956
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Posted By: StanM on June 29 2022 at 01:38:09 PM

The only thing in my life experience that some might say required big gonads was launching planes on a carrier.  Got pelted with shrapnel when an F8 blew up half way down the cat track and watched the pilot go down in the fuselage.  Had a few other incidents where we lost people as well.  I don't consider myself to have been the macho type but they say it's considered one of the most dangerous occupation.  That kind of skews my opinion about these kinds of things.  They say that once you've worked on the flight deck every other job you'll ever have will never equal that kind of intensity.  I have never driven any kind of race car but standing behind a camera in turn one when 24 cars take the green gets kind of intense but nothing like the flight deck.  I think the balls thing is a cliche. 



OK, so you think "balls" is a cliche. Nobody is questioning your courage!

Every sprint car driver has lots of guts, men & women alike. So you have 24 brave drivers & one of those
"racing things" comes up. One driver has to lift or they both wreck.... is it gonna be the driver with a bit more testosterone?

Which brings up the question of why women don't win very often... is it just numbers? Less women drivers= less wins?

Not that I can ever recall Schatz "chickening out"....

I think its a combination of factors. like most things in life. I started with the engine, loss of Warner & age are the others. Who knows?



StanM
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June 30, 2022 at 11:04:52 AM
Joined: 11/07/2006
Posts: 5308
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Posted By: revjimk on June 30 2022 at 09:35:52 AM

OK, so you think "balls" is a cliche. Nobody is questioning your courage!

Every sprint car driver has lots of guts, men & women alike. So you have 24 brave drivers & one of those
"racing things" comes up. One driver has to lift or they both wreck.... is it gonna be the driver with a bit more testosterone?

Which brings up the question of why women don't win very often... is it just numbers? Less women drivers= less wins?

Not that I can ever recall Schatz "chickening out"....

I think its a combination of factors. like most things in life. I started with the engine, loss of Warner & age are the others. Who knows?



My point is that in the 60's it took a tough character to drive without power steering or roll cage.  Today the safety has come so far that the emphasis is more on hand eye coordination than strength and bravado.  My experience working in a dangerous setting required reliance on knowing the job and paying attention to detail.  I'll always prefer putting my ass on the line knowing that the people around me are relying on knowlege and training more than bravado.  Same in Sprint Cars, those balls aren't going to communicat the necessary changes to the car.  Some would say it's all balls going into the first turn wide open.  I say it's knowing the car and proper setup that gives one the confidence.  True, any driver afraid of the possibilities will not be successful.  

I cringe when I hear some of the cliches.  There are some female drivers Midgets that are doing well and are getting some wins but I like drivers who have won a lot and many who have never won much it at all.  Winning isn't my yardstick as much as sportsmanship and being approachable and setting a good example for the kids.  


Stan Meissner

revjimk
July 01, 2022 at 01:53:37 PM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 6956
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Of course the modern guys aren't as "ballsy" (or crazy?) as the no roll cage era guys!

" knowlege and training more than bravado" ..... combination of both, right? Obviously Schatz hasn't lost his knowhow, so that brings it back to loss of Ricky Warner?

Or the engine?




revjimk
July 01, 2022 at 02:01:45 PM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 6956
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As to your issues with long drives.... I made my first 2 races of the year at Grandview & Port Royal (I'm a year older than you)

Drive to Grandview was mellow (4 hrs.), not much traffic, fun to be at a live race, which was good one, despite Rico winning from the front.

Drive to PR the next day was beautiful, as always. got there way early, took dip in the Juniata River, met some cool people. Race was pretty much a snoozer

Drive home the next day was brutal, other drivers pissing me off, I was exhausted. Traffic thru Danbury Ct. was GOD AWFUL, as usual... not that big a town, but for some reason bumper to bumper for MILES......

So I was feeling my age & doubting my sanity! wink



alum.427
July 01, 2022 at 06:24:41 PM
Joined: 03/16/2017
Posts: 1275
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You guys are forgetting one thing. The cars today are easily  twice as fast as the cars from the 70's. Advancement in tires alone make today's car handle so much better. Sidewall flex, there was no such thing in my days on track.  Wings were a sheet of plywood. The balls comparison when you compare the cars of today to the cars of yesterday is not equal.  In my opinion when Johnson started the outlaws is when you saw the guys with brass nutz. Throw in what cars weighed back then, some said karl had his car down around 900 lbs. That's crazy. But others did to and that's what made Ted Johnson say enough is enough. Karl still has that car along side his shop I've been told. Split, independent front axle, I think  sammy built one also but I don't think it ever raced.  



glhayden
July 01, 2022 at 08:12:38 PM
Joined: 12/07/2004
Posts: 883
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This message was edited on July 01, 2022 at 08:19:01 PM by glhayden
Reply to:
Posted By: alum.427 on July 01 2022 at 06:24:41 PM

You guys are forgetting one thing. The cars today are easily  twice as fast as the cars from the 70's. Advancement in tires alone make today's car handle so much better. Sidewall flex, there was no such thing in my days on track.  Wings were a sheet of plywood. The balls comparison when you compare the cars of today to the cars of yesterday is not equal.  In my opinion when Johnson started the outlaws is when you saw the guys with brass nutz. Throw in what cars weighed back then, some said karl had his car down around 900 lbs. That's crazy. But others did to and that's what made Ted Johnson say enough is enough. Karl still has that car along side his shop I've been told. Split, independent front axle, I think  sammy built one also but I don't think it ever raced.  



"The cars today are easily twice as fast as the cars from the 70's."

Really?? According to the archives of Eldora Speedway, Rick Ferkel lowered the Track Record at the WoO's very first race at the facility on April 16th, 1979 to 15.989 (Bobby Allen won the A-main)...while David Gravel set the current Track Record of 12.599 (3.39 seconds faster) set on September 23rd, 2020. "Twice as fast" 15.989 ÷ 2 = 7.995...somebody better have a bucket of nitroglycerin pills in the booth, because Johnny Gibson is gonna go into cardiac arrest calling "And he's into the SEVEN SECOND BRACKET!!!!!" at the KR in two weeks.

 

Note: Rick Ferkel on May 13th, 1973 went 17.30 in a Super Sprint...the earliest Track Record of the 70's at Eldora, according to their website. 17.30 ÷ 2 = 8.65...we still gotta a ways to go to be "twice as fast" there.




alum.427
July 01, 2022 at 08:23:19 PM
Joined: 03/16/2017
Posts: 1275
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Ghayden, that was also when the banking was steeper. Today's Eldora is a much different racetrack. Sparks were the normal back then with guys putting the bumper on the wall. 



revjimk
July 01, 2022 at 11:14:26 PM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 6956
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Posted By: glhayden on July 01 2022 at 08:12:38 PM

"The cars today are easily twice as fast as the cars from the 70's."

Really?? According to the archives of Eldora Speedway, Rick Ferkel lowered the Track Record at the WoO's very first race at the facility on April 16th, 1979 to 15.989 (Bobby Allen won the A-main)...while David Gravel set the current Track Record of 12.599 (3.39 seconds faster) set on September 23rd, 2020. "Twice as fast" 15.989 ÷ 2 = 7.995...somebody better have a bucket of nitroglycerin pills in the booth, because Johnny Gibson is gonna go into cardiac arrest calling "And he's into the SEVEN SECOND BRACKET!!!!!" at the KR in two weeks.

 

Note: Rick Ferkel on May 13th, 1973 went 17.30 in a Super Sprint...the earliest Track Record of the 70's at Eldora, according to their website. 17.30 ÷ 2 = 8.65...we still gotta a ways to go to be "twice as fast" there.



I don't think he meant it literally! wink

more like "much faster"!



glhayden
July 02, 2022 at 01:11:01 AM
Joined: 12/07/2004
Posts: 883
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Posted By: alum.427 on July 01 2022 at 08:23:19 PM

Ghayden, that was also when the banking was steeper. Today's Eldora is a much different racetrack. Sparks were the normal back then with guys putting the bumper on the wall. 



I'm well aware of that; made many trips there beginning in the early 80's. And don't recall lap times being markedly slower, wing or non-wing.




StanM
MyResults MyPressRelease
July 02, 2022 at 12:59:16 PM
Joined: 11/07/2006
Posts: 5308
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They were getting pretty quick by the 80's but by then there was a noticeable difference between 80's and 60's and first part of the 70's.  Speeds haven't doubled since 1960 but they're a lot quicker.  Just simple things like going to the wide tires we see today made a big difference.  I remember the narrow tires as well.  Even saw a few Offy and Ranger aircraft engines when I first started going.  


Stan Meissner

glhayden
July 02, 2022 at 02:51:24 PM
Joined: 12/07/2004
Posts: 883
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Posted By: StanM on July 02 2022 at 12:59:16 PM

They were getting pretty quick by the 80's but by then there was a noticeable difference between 80's and 60's and first part of the 70's.  Speeds haven't doubled since 1960 but they're a lot quicker.  Just simple things like going to the wide tires we see today made a big difference.  I remember the narrow tires as well.  Even saw a few Offy and Ranger aircraft engines when I first started going.  



A far more accurate & reasonable comparison. Case in point: Knoxville Raceway, Bud McCune @ 23.13 was the fastest Quick Time of 1960...compared to Brian Brown's current Track Record of 14.351. 



kooks
July 03, 2022 at 11:07:09 PM
Joined: 02/27/2008
Posts: 696
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Posted By: Kool Trikes on June 26 2022 at 12:29:43 PM

They say it has a ton of horsepower. Drivability is what they seem to  be chasing.



Hasn't that been the "story" with the Fords ever since the days of the Casey Luna Ford?




linbob
July 04, 2022 at 02:09:11 AM
Joined: 03/12/2011
Posts: 1548
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Posted By: glhayden on July 02 2022 at 02:51:24 PM

A far more accurate & reasonable comparison. Case in point: Knoxville Raceway, Bud McCune @ 23.13 was the fastest Quick Time of 1960...compared to Brian Brown's current Track Record of 14.351. 



wing, no wing, 500 HP, and 950 HP.  Rock hard narrower tires, softer tires.  Hard to compare



StanM
MyResults MyPressRelease
July 04, 2022 at 10:41:05 AM
Joined: 11/07/2006
Posts: 5308
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This message was edited on July 04, 2022 at 10:42:35 AM by StanM
Reply to:
Posted By: glhayden on July 02 2022 at 02:51:24 PM

A far more accurate & reasonable comparison. Case in point: Knoxville Raceway, Bud McCune @ 23.13 was the fastest Quick Time of 1960...compared to Brian Brown's current Track Record of 14.351. 



I have searched track records to prove this point as well.  1960's Sprint Cars could not beat todays 305's at Knoxville.  I noticed that the 410's and 360's fastest cars in tt were very close in lap times this weekend as well.


Stan Meissner

Murphy
July 04, 2022 at 02:22:31 PM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 2453
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Posted By: EC2BME on June 26 2022 at 07:05:27 AM

Own team!! God it's painful to watch a High Dollar team running Average SMH 



If we're being honest about this and not just piling on Schatz, couldn't the same arguments be made about Kraig Kinser and Kasey Kahne?




StanM
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July 05, 2022 at 10:14:26 AM
Joined: 11/07/2006
Posts: 5308
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Posted By: Murphy on July 04 2022 at 02:22:31 PM

If we're being honest about this and not just piling on Schatz, couldn't the same arguments be made about Kraig Kinser and Kasey Kahne?



True but those two drivers have never dominated the Outlaws or Nationals the way that Donny has.  Fans expected him to stay at or contending for the points lea.  They say it's hard to get to the top and even harder to stay there.  Maybe everyone else has found some more speed during the time they have been developing the motor program.  A lot of drivers have come and gone in my time watching races.  The only constant has been change.  


Stan Meissner

Murphy
July 05, 2022 at 10:33:45 AM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 2453
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Posted By: StanM on July 05 2022 at 10:14:26 AM

True but those two drivers have never dominated the Outlaws or Nationals the way that Donny has.  Fans expected him to stay at or contending for the points lea.  They say it's hard to get to the top and even harder to stay there.  Maybe everyone else has found some more speed during the time they have been developing the motor program.  A lot of drivers have come and gone in my time watching races.  The only constant has been change.  



Kraig has won a Knoxville Nationals, and he has a well financed team. So, he has that going for him...

I've never understood the hoopla surrounding Kasey Kahne. In fact, I had to reasearch just how many WoO races he's won over the years. Want to guess how many? 



sw1911
July 05, 2022 at 10:51:56 AM
Joined: 02/14/2010
Posts: 96
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Posted By: Murphy on July 05 2022 at 10:33:45 AM

Kraig has won a Knoxville Nationals, and he has a well financed team. So, he has that going for him...

I've never understood the hoopla surrounding Kasey Kahne. In fact, I had to reasearch just how many WoO races he's won over the years. Want to guess how many? 



0?


.


StanM
MyResults MyPressRelease
July 05, 2022 at 01:17:03 PM
Joined: 11/07/2006
Posts: 5308
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Posted By: Murphy on July 05 2022 at 10:33:45 AM

Kraig has won a Knoxville Nationals, and he has a well financed team. So, he has that going for him...

I've never understood the hoopla surrounding Kasey Kahne. In fact, I had to reasearch just how many WoO races he's won over the years. Want to guess how many? 



Someone beat me to the big ZERO.  They were talking about it on a broadcast recently.  I know Kraig won the Nationals one year and I took a Victory Lane photo of him up in Brainerd, Minnesota, probably fifteen years ago so I have seen him win a couple as well.  In spite of Kraig's Nationals win he hasn't dominated WoO titles and Nationals like his father before him or Schatz has most recently.  I think it's a fair question for fans to wonder about but he has been carrying a lot of weight on his shoulders the past few years.  All we can do is sit back and see what happens.


Stan Meissner



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