Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

No sprint car playoffs! Nascar was really suckin so they had to create their play off junk and it still sucked so then they had to create segment racing which has helped some. Leave the playoff crap to the ball and stick sports.

A "Playoff" would be a disaster and a bunch of BS! There are better ways to create a closer competition implementing the current points system. Here's one I've given some thought to. Break the season down to (example) twelve race segements. So on a 96 race schedule the season would have 8 segments. As each segment comes to a close, each driver gets to eliminate his worst performance from that segment. So one driver might be able to eliminate the points awarded for a 19th place finish, and another driver may have to eliminate the points from a 7th place finish (and so on). So after each of the 12 race segments, the points standing would get scrambled and probably see changes in the standings. And there is nothing really wrong with giving drivers the opportunity to "forget" a bad outing like a crash or mechanical failure. JMO of course.

There haven't been any real close points races in the past four years. Here are some result spreads for season anding points.

2007-146

2008-132

2009-19

2010-114

2011-248

2012-114

2013-14

2018 doesn't appear to be a close race, either. Schatz won four of his titles from 2007-2012, Pittman won in 2013, and Schatz has won the past the last four in a row (his first was in 2006 by 364 pts over Dollansky). Maybe they shouldn't have increased the points awarded for winning features, and shouldn't have decreased the points awarded for top five quaifying times. Just a thought.

Went thru this about 1960.  A physic prof. said that  it did not matter how wide a tire that a narrow tire gives you the same traction because to total weight per square in would ad up to be the same.  This is not really correct in my opiniun because of other factors that I do not understand.  Prof. also said a top fuel dragster could never go over 175 mph.  They are now at 330 mph.  Got to also remember that a tire at say 16 inch wide at 100mph  does not have 16 in tread on track.  Tire baloons out.  Same with a narrow tire.

whew.... nothing like arguing with somebody you agree with...

Nah, too gimmicky

Just leave point system alone, scrap TTs & go with double heats, reversed starting positions for 2nd one

or leave it as is....

One way to check these theories is to just take it to an extreme. If you had a half inch wide tire, it would have plenty of pressure per square inch, but it would just dig a groove in the dirt. Physics profs are dealing in abstract theories often... you need to ask an engineer. Its more than PSI, its how tire reacts with dirt, obviously

Also too gimmicky, IMHO

Its not the points system that matters, its what happens on the track

Harder tire would last longer, save $$$, take emphasis off horsepower & require more driver skill.....

Can't speak on the tire but I agree with the point system not being what matters.  I wish there could be less emphasis on the championship.  I absolutely hate points racing.  To paraphrase many successful drivers through the years "I don't think about the points, I just run as hard as I can and the points will take care of itself."  I wish every driver thought this way or could think this way.

However I don't believe there's been a lot of "points" racing in the outlaws, at least not as obvious as NASCAR.  What do people remember?  A good race or a close championship?

Like I said earlier, Port Royal runs the 2 heat format with inverted lineups, but haven’t heard or seen what fans and drivers think of it. I personally like it.  

     Maybe what you're saying puts a spotlight on the difference between 'big time' racing and grass roots racing. (WoO etc. is still just grass roots racing on steroids, no matter how many times people try to "take it to the next level"). 

     Nascar racing seems to be more about the event and the hoopla around it. Thus, the importance of corporate money, squeaky clean drivers, gimicks like the chase and butt-kiss politics. It's all about the money and the attention. NASCAR has all the ingedieants of a reality TV show. It's not really about racing. Grass roots racing is more about competition- doing your best and coming back next week to try and do better. 

The Chase for better or worse was a gimmick to keep Nascar competitive in terms of TV ratings when the NFL season started. The WoO doesn’t have that pressure and they already have their big end of season show in the World Finals which doesn’t need any gimmicks to sell tickets. 

In terms of doing double heats, for the full time teams that’s the equivalent of running 20-25 extra features during the year for no extra money. 

Absolutely right....it would be a gimmick. Same as a "playoff" is.  The points adjustment model I made up and a playoff both do the same exact thing, which makes either one a mistake. I was hoping someone would pick up on it.  Do you know the mistake I'm referring to?   Both have one possible end result, and that is to try and topple the guy who has had the best season, and is leading in points. BAD! NASCAR made the mistake and they have no way out of it. Their playoff system penalized the points leader several times, which led to Jimmy Johnson putting together a championship string that he would not have had had it not been for the playoff. 

Yep- sounds like a good gimmick for a reality TV show. Tune in next week when we hobble the best racer so the others can catch him.

I've never seen that, must be local weekly events, right? I only make the 5 hr. drive for big events.

I'd like to check it out some time... do they announce when it will happen?

Yea, I heard that about extra cost, wear & tear on equipment, etc.

My opinion is just that of a fan who's never owned, driven, or worked on a sprint  car, just my 2 cents

That's something I never thought about.  My question is, what do the teams do for time trials?  Do they do anything to the motor, like lean them way out or run them without any water?  Is there anything they do or do is it basically race ready?  If they do, that could take a little wear and tear off the motor.

Also I'm not sure how long the heats are but lets say they're 10 laps, which would equate to 13 laps of heat racing with time trials.  What if they made them 8 laps and scrapped time trials, that would be only be 3 more laps per night, which I don't think would kill any of them.

From what I've experienced a wider tire gives more grip when there is alot of traction in the surface and a narrow tire seems to give more grip when traction is very limited. Ive seen races where when it gets really slick the bomber/ street stock classes with the street tires lap times get way closer to the wider tire classes than they normally would. I also know that drag cars use wider tires for more grip. A narrow tire will give you much more grip in the ice/snow on a vehicle than a wide tire will.

I know the fans where I sit like the dual heats. It provides better racing because you are rewarded for every car you pass. Port should do it more often in 2019.

Like the two heats port does. Many regulars do as well. However they could go to 8 laps easily. That is what WOO has. Anything that gets rid of time trials. Many just stay in the parking lots during that time. 

Pill draws or draws for time trial position. Crap,shoot either way. IF time trials are here to stay. Double up cars, shorten to 1 lap, eliminate some junk in the shows like fireworks or some extra divisions. CUT THE SHOW to end early. My kids want to see the drivers afterwards. Too late to do. FIND a way. 

IMO All star format is the best format especially since they changed how they lined up B & C Mains this year to finishing order. Except the front row of the B are the fastest qualifying two non transfers, which I agree with.