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Topic: IndyCar
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Page 2 of 2 of 38 replies
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March 05, 2013 at
04:44:36 PM
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" Open wheel racing at every level needs a serious overhaul."
Amen and +1
I LEARNED ESP FROM MY MOM
"PUT YOUR SWEATER ON: DON'T YOU THINK I KNOW WHEN
YOU'RE COLD?"
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March 05, 2013 at
09:50:25 PM
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The issue is fan base, and fewer kids being excited about cars, but also Indy time trials were about pushing technology forward, achieving higher speeds, and that's over. Safety R&D has been great, but it's not as exciting as R&D for going faster.
Grass roots racing may not be as golden as in an idealized past, but there is great grass roots racing available all over the country on any given night, at many levels. Wasn't that what it always was about anyway? Not championships or perfect organization, but one guy edging another guy out in the dirt.
When the management at Indycar fired Bernard, I took all the fanhood energy devoted to them and put it into sprint cars. I'm very satisfied with that decision.
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March 06, 2013 at
12:10:44 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: revjimk on March 04 2013 at 09:21:40 PM
Agreed. I followed Dario Franchetti's hauler from Lincoln, Nebraska almost to Colorado after Nationals & had to Google him to find out who he was.
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You had to google Dario Franchitti to find out who he was? You must of come to nationals to pick up cans and bottles instead of watch racing.
-Austin Rankin
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March 06, 2013 at
01:30:40 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: pitguy14 on March 05 2013 at 12:40:07 PM
All of you make great points. Let me take this to a smaller local level. I've lived in Knoxville going on 13 years and have covered the weekly races and the Nationals for 12 of those years. My first couple of years they averaged around 2500 for a weekly show and as many as 8-10,000 for an Outlaws show and the Nationals were sold out BEFORE the Nationals started. Now they're lucky if they get 1,500 for a regular show (on a good night) and around 3,000 for an Outlaws show. Several reasons: I agree kids aren't as interested in racing as they once were. I cover Knoxville HS along with sprint cars and many of the kids have favorite drivers but you would be surprised how many of them have never been to a race, and the ones that actually go half the time they don't know who won. Their parents buy them a T-Shirt and that becomes their favorite driver. The recent economy, no matter whom you blame it hasn't been good. A family just can't throw down about $40 to get in, plus another 40-50 for food (since tracks bar you from bringing in a cooler), plus another 75-100 if everyone wants a T-Shirt of their favorite driver. Didn't mean to ramble this long, but a few observations.
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pitguy 14,
I have been going to Knoxville for going on 31 years and I can honestly say that you are way off base when it comes to fan count.
The biggest change is the seating capacity and how that makes the crowd look (when I first started going, Sections AA,BB, the entire backstretch, as well as sections L,M and N on the frontstretch didn't exist (and neither did the Hall of Fame or the suites on the frontstretch).
Total seating capacity in those days was maybe 7000 and the place looked jammed on Regular Saturday nights with 3000 people there. (I will agree that the Outlaw crowds are down, but I think they put close to 9000 in the stands for the June show last year).
Today, the frontstretch alone at Knoxville holds 17,289, plus the suites at the Hall of Fame hold 400 and the suites on the frontstetch old right around 1000. What has happened is the fans are more spread out (all those people used to be in the stands now sit in the suites).
If you figure attendance is 3500 people, spread them out over 16 seating sections and you only have 219 people in each section, then you have 40 rows of seating, so if you spread out those 219 people you only have 5.5 people in each row of each section -- that's with ZERO people in the Hall of Fame or suites on the frontstretch).
Now, if you figure that 1200 of that 3500 are sitting in the suites (which is probably about normal), all of a sudden you only need to have 144 people sitting in each section and 3.6 people sitting in each row.
Take attendance down to 3000 and you only have to have 188 people in each section (without suites) and 125 people in each section with 1200 of those 3000 in the suites which equates to 4.7 people and 3.125 people respectively.
Start counting heads in the section you sit in next time you are at the races and tell me if 125 people are sitting in your section. I know where I sit, that # is closer to 180 as I have counted heads before.
I agree that the economy does have some bearing on attendace, but try to look at the positives that are going on instead of the negatives.
Knoxville is having (4) nights (1 each month in April, May, June and July) when ALL SCHOOL AGE (up to seniors in high school) kids get in FREE, and if you have a car (which most of us do) and spend $50 to fill it up with gas at Casey's, bring the receipt and your adult tickets only cost you $10, so you can take your ENTIRE FAMILY to the races for $20 (4) times this year (it's up to you what you spend on concessions and souvenirs).
Don't forget that the size of the venue can make your crowd look small or large. I'll use another example from not too long ago in DesMoines. They had an IHL Hockey team (Iowa Chops) that pulled in around 2500 people per game @ Wells Fargo Arena that holds 15000+ for Hockey. Place looked EMPTY. Now, across town the DesMoines Buccaneers Hockey Team play at Buccaneer Arena that has a max capacity of 3500, when they have 1500 or more people there, the place looks full and autmatically feels like a better atmosphere (even with less people than what the Iowa Chops were pulling in).
It's all about perception. It's our jobs (as fans) to invite people to the races with us to grow the crowd to make the weekly races more an more of an event. There are TONS of racetracks across the US that hold World of Outlaw (Sprint or Late Model) and Lucas Oil (ASCS of Late Model) events that don't hold anywhere close to 4000 people, let alone close to 25,000 and they would kill to have the weekly crowd that Knoxville (or Williams Grove) has. Most tracks are lucky to pull in 800 people these days (and that's why race purses suck and ticket prices are so high around the country).
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March 06, 2013 at
11:56:56 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: cubfan07 on March 06 2013 at 12:10:44 PM
You had to google Dario Franchitti to find out who he was? You must of come to nationals to pick up cans and bottles instead of watch racing.
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Ha Ha. Nope, 10 days of racing in Iowa, then Grain Valley Missouri for USAC, then Speedy Bill Museum in Lincoln. Didn't pick up or drain a single beer can.
Haven't been interested in Indy since the 1960s when Mickey Thompson & Lotus were trying to break the Offy monopoly with V-8s
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March 07, 2013 at
12:14:34 AM
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I think the first question Indy Car needs to ask it's self is do we want to be the premier US based open wheel series or do we want to be a feeder series for F-1. It's ok if you do not like midget/sprint/ indy cars designed to run on dirt (silver crown) then go away! USAC needs to wake up take the reins of a series that hangs it's hat on the "big cars". IndyCar can go off into the sunset and 25K steering wheels. or You can back up make the cars have a little chromemoly in bumpers and nerfs, put a shifter and clutch back in them take downforce out so maybe a kid who never drove one could get in and without 10 years of practice on a pushbutton steering wheel vidieo game be able to drive. If I want to watch jet streams off the canard wings I will tune in F-1. If IndyCar would just go away and leave us alone I think the balance of open wheel racing in the US is doing a lot better than we think. With the right rule package Silver Crown could be an exciting series.
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March 07, 2013 at
12:20:46 AM
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Indy could be renamed "The George" and run as a weekend private party for Bernie's E's daughters
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March 07, 2013 at
10:43:10 AM
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Here is some very interesting reading about this series.
http://espn.go.com/racing/indycar/story/_/id/9003347/consulting-firm-makes-suggestions-help-troubled-indycar
I LEARNED ESP FROM MY MOM
"PUT YOUR SWEATER ON: DON'T YOU THINK I KNOW WHEN
YOU'RE COLD?"
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March 07, 2013 at
10:49:09 AM
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That is a big part of the problem right now iq. Indycar and F1 have the most technologically advanced racing machines on the market and Americans want it dummied down to suit our lack of technical interest. Indycar is fine, it is the lack of technical advancement in the short track series that is helping to handicap the drivers in the US, not the other way around. Point out one street car that currently uses a mechanical constant flow fuel injection. Sprint cars and Midgets have failed to keep up. That is a short coming of American racing, not the other way around. We as Americans have a problem with keeping up, so we dummie down and call our series the best. That is a little pathetic, longing to be second best.
Never hit stationary objects!
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March 07, 2013 at
11:16:52 AM
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A good thing about a forum is you can disagree.
Let the F1 have their "computerized" racing and running road course tracks.
Our dirt racing has always been, for the most part, "hands on" and I hope it stays that way.
Put the motor in the back on IndyCars where it belongs! Go back to the roadster type cars and let that "foreign series" have their spares.
If someone wishes to have a "constant flow" they can always take a diaretic! 
I LEARNED ESP FROM MY MOM
"PUT YOUR SWEATER ON: DON'T YOU THINK I KNOW WHEN
YOU'RE COLD?"
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March 07, 2013 at
04:31:25 PM
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HA, that is funny opnwhlr, "take a diaretic"! 
I was simply pointing out that it is our racing that is not evolving, not the other way around. Indycar has advanced and there is not currently a system in place to help drivers move up. Backing off of the series as a means to create opportunity has already been tried. It is called The IRL, and local short track drivers did not pack the house. Indycar style racing has been an evolution and Sprints and Midgets have been held on a 1950's back burner. There is no magic in something that is old and worn out, and local short track drivers are not as adept in cars that they have not grown up racing. Comparing a 1950's technology to a 2010 technology is not comparing apples to apples, so it is tough for a local short track guy to put himself in a position to make it in the world of technology and money. I know a fellow who had a shot in an IRL car, but he had to come to the table with $250,000. Someone has to pay for that technology, it does not come cheap.
Never hit stationary objects!
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March 07, 2013 at
05:34:52 PM
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This message was edited on
March 07, 2013 at
05:38:43 PM by BIGFISH
OK, more than a few of you have said on this thread that we need to try something different, but when I posted what I'll paste on below, about what a S Cali group is going to try as far as "something new" is concerned, there's hardly a peep.
.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following information will be up on the website at www.DirtEntertainment.com soon and will be updated regularly...
URA
United Racing Association
Consists of 4 Divisions:
1. Unlimited Sprint Car
- Conventional Sprint Chassis
- No Wings
- No Fuel Restriction (Except No Gasoline)
- No Displacement Restriction
- No Aspiration Restriction
- EFI Allowed (No Carburetors)
- HTW Right Rear Tire
- Cars to be Minimum 1350 Pounds with Driver and Fuel (Prior to Feature Push Off)
- Cash Payout Minimum: $2,550 to Win; $350 to Start (20 Cars Maximum in Feature)
2. Limited Sprint Car
- Conventional Sprint Chassis
- No Wings
- Methanol Only
- Iron Block
- 360ci maximum displacement
- 23 Degree Heads
- Normally Aspirated
- Mechanical Injection Only
- HTW Right Rear Tire
- Cars to be Minimum 1350 Pounds with Driver and Fuel (Prior to Feature Push Off)
- Cash Payout Minimum: $300 to Win: $50 to Start (20 Cars Maximum in Feature)
3. Unlimited Midget
- Conventional Midget Chassis
- No Wings
- No Fuel Restriction (Except No Gasoline)
- No Displacement Restriction
- No Aspiration Restriction
- EFI Allowed (No Carburetors)
- SP2 Right Rear Tire
- Cars to be Minimum 1050 Pounds with Driver and Fuel (Prior to Feature Push Off)
- Cash Payout Minimum: $1,225 to Win; $175 to Start (20 Cars Maximum in Feature)
4. Limited Midget
- Conventional Midget Chassis
- No Wings
- Methanol Only
- Focus Motor Package Only (Must Be Approved)
- SP2 Right Rear Tire
- Cars to be Minimum 1100 Pounds with Driver and Fuel (Prior to Feature Push Off)
- Cash Payout Minimum: $300 to Win; $50 to Start (20 Cars Maximum in Feature)
NO TRACTION CONTROL ALLOWED IN ANY DIVISION. IF FOUND TO BE USING TRACTION CONTROL THE CAR/DRIVER/AND CAR OWNER WILL BE BANNED FOR 12 MONTHS FROM COMPETITION IN ANY DIVISION FROM DATE OF INFRACTION AND LOSE ALL SERIES POINTS AND WILL NOT BE ELIGIBLE FOR ANY YEAR END REWARDS…ZERO TOLERANCE!
ALL PURSE PAYOUTS WILL BE MADE AFTER THE RACES IN CASH AT THE DESIGNATED PAYOUT WINDOW FOR THAT VENUE. YOU MUST BE A CURRENT MEMBER IN GOOD STANDING WITH ALL MEMBERSHIP AND TAX PAPERWORK IN ORDER FOR BOTH DRIVER AND CAR OWNER. THE REGISTERED CAR OWNER OF RECORD WILL BE THE ONLY PERSON THAT MAY COLLECT WINNINGS FOR THAT CAR (VALID SIGNATURE REQUIRED), UNLESS PRIOR ARRANGEMENTS HAVE BEEN MADE WITH THE PROMOTER. OTHERWISE YOU WILL BE PAID BY CHECK FOLLOWING THE EVENT AFTER VALID PAPERWORK IS PROCESSED AND APPROVED.
TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR POINTS FUNDS: YOU MUST BE A CURRENT MEMBER IN GOOD STANDING WITH ALL MEMBERSHIP AND TAX PAPERWORK IN ORDER FOR BOTH DRIVER AND CAR OWNER. DRIVER MUST HAVE COMPETED IN AT LEAST ONE-HALF OF THE URA SEASON'S EVENTS. A MINIMUM OF 10 URA EVENTS WILL BE HELD IN CALIFORNIA IN 2013.
Unlimited classes will be for qualified/licensed drivers in those divisions only.
Limited classes will be driver development divisions. New drivers will begin in these classes and progress to a point where a currently licensed driver in good standing in the respective Unlimited division will sign the new driver's license indicating he is comfortable that the new driver is competent to drive at that level. (i.e. NHRA, IRL, etc.)
Drivers 12 years of age or older may compete in the Limited Midget division. In all other URA divisions, the drivers must have reached their 16th Birthday by the date of the first event they wish to enter for competition.
URA Concepts:· Fewer rules promote innovation and cost savings· Running the four divisions helps build the future and promotes a greater number of drivers competing in more divisions. While good for the fans, teams also benefit by working together in multiple divisions. Top teams may help lower budget or rookie teams by passing on their quality parts. Top teams are exposed to up and coming drivers/teams. There is plenty of opportunity for up and coming drivers to watch, learn from, and ask questions of veteran drivers to help teach them to become better drivers. · To keep entry level drivers racing together while they learn and are watched by the veteran drivers.· Drivers will earn their way into top divisions which will make it mean more and possibly develop some drivers again who are proud to be SPRINT/MIDGET DRIVERS and may not see the need to move on to other disciplines.
Doug Bushey
Motorsports Enthusiast
"My dreams are black and white...30 laps after the
green is waved"
Half the lies they tell about me aren't true.
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March 07, 2013 at
05:58:43 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: jotham on March 05 2013 at 09:50:25 PM
The issue is fan base, and fewer kids being excited about cars, but also Indy time trials were about pushing technology forward, achieving higher speeds, and that's over. Safety R&D has been great, but it's not as exciting as R&D for going faster.
Grass roots racing may not be as golden as in an idealized past, but there is great grass roots racing available all over the country on any given night, at many levels. Wasn't that what it always was about anyway? Not championships or perfect organization, but one guy edging another guy out in the dirt.
When the management at Indycar fired Bernard, I took all the fanhood energy devoted to them and put it into sprint cars. I'm very satisfied with that decision.
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One problem is there are so many rules that one can not try things out. At Indy you used to be able to try other engines. One team put 2 porche engines in a car. Another a straight 6 Rambler engine. All kinds of V8 were tried like Hemi engines and of course the turbine. Some guys built complete engines including casting there own blocks. You can not do any of these things anymore.
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March 07, 2013 at
06:16:56 PM
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The Indy Cars will be 20 minutes from my front door for the third straight year in downtown Baltimore this Labor Day weekend...For the third straight year, I will drive over an hour and a half each way each day to watch a dirt race...
Opinions may vary...
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March 09, 2013 at
08:55:54 PM
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I agree do not try to make IndyCars be something they are not and in fact if they are the premier open wheel class in the US I think they need to be F-1's with engine packages that level the playing ground so we can se ford/chev/mopar equal to foreign. Now how do we get the top 50 sprint car drivers in the us to have an oppertunity to move to IndyCar. Stock Cars do not have the hugh transition, a Late model and a sprint cup car are not that far apart on the other hand a sprint car and a F-1 car are in dirfferent worlds so how do we fix that?
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March 09, 2013 at
09:25:09 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: iq on March 09 2013 at 08:55:54 PM
I agree do not try to make IndyCars be something they are not and in fact if they are the premier open wheel class in the US I think they need to be F-1's with engine packages that level the playing ground so we can se ford/chev/mopar equal to foreign. Now how do we get the top 50 sprint car drivers in the us to have an oppertunity to move to IndyCar. Stock Cars do not have the hugh transition, a Late model and a sprint cup car are not that far apart on the other hand a sprint car and a F-1 car are in dirfferent worlds so how do we fix that?
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I do agree that there needs to be more work done to get more Chevies and Fords out there, unfortunately there aren't many Chevies or Fords that can handle that environment. As for making it more accessible to Sprint & Midget drivers, well I am not sure that this can happen. You really can't compare Indycars to roadsters, they are just not the same. A big part of the reason that there are so many foreign drivers is that training grounds for running Indy style cars no longer exists in The U.S. That is a part of the reason that Danica went to race in Europe. That is where she learned how to drive Indycars, not here in the U.S. That is a penalty that we pay for not allowing our local cars to keep up with the changing times. I remember when the Midgets started to make the transition to modifieds and winged cars and all of the whoopla that went with it. The transition to more sleek cars was halted pretty quickly here in the US, and the writing was on the wall. 1964 was the last time that a roaster won at Indy, and it was apparent that the front engine cars were not going to be competitive after that. From that point on either we changed the local cars or it was only a matter of time before our local guys were not going to be the choice for driving those cars.
Never hit stationary objects!
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March 09, 2013 at
09:34:22 PM
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Ran with UARA. Joliet Stadium 1970's. This and the Badgers, both of which are now illegal.
Never hit stationary objects!
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March 10, 2013 at
09:58:26 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: rickrwp on March 05 2013 at 02:12:17 AM
Tree huggers have nothing to do with the downturn in all forms of motor racing. Young people today do no have love affairs with automobiles like we did. They have love affairs with Galaxy V phones and iPhones and playing games with their hands. It is even a fact that young people today do not even want to own cars. That is the real problem, so don't try to find fault where it isn't.
It is also true that we do not have people with the passion to promote motor racing like the days past. Where are the JC Agajanians of today, nowhere. JC walked around with the big cowboy hat as a guy bigger than life, and people wanted to know what he was all about. He talked racing everywhere he went, and that was interesting to people.
H.A Humpy Wheeler, there was a promotor! He made every event at Charlotte like a circus event, guns blazing everywhere, and you knew you would be entertained as well as seeing a race.
Times have just changed, and as with many things, our beloved racing is falling behind, and may become extinct
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Rickwp.......You are spot on........All the handheld devises have become a major distraction for everyone...Not just Kid's.....I LOVED ASCOT......lived in Carson .Ca could here all the noise from the house!
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March 10, 2013 at
01:17:53 PM
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sooo unlike NASCAR where it seems great drivers from any venue are able to be competitive due to the lack of technology that has driver control. i.e. they have brake bias, gas pedal, steering wheel shifter and a i-pod for music. INDYCAR is full of driver controlled functions and is designed to the minimum, as opposed to nascar which seems to think if one bar is good put in two and make the safer barriers thicker. Seems likes IndyCar is way behind NASCAR I do not see the any Indy clases like the bombaro bandito what ever ( i just know that a 8 year old kid at All-American had nascar quality promo). The 1/4---micro---focus----midget sprint---big car is a complete series. It has a beginning and a end. Except the end is Big Cars and that series seem to have been forgotten. I have only seen Indy Cars at Phoenix and Long Beach, in Long Beach I had no idea who or what was going on due to my poor viewing location finally found the Yard Arm and watched the race on TV. Phoenix was ok few cars finished if I remember. If Nascar can make chev and fords live Indy car can two now there is an idea share the same engine in both series Now you would have three or four engine packages. It seems like IndyCar needs to refocus on america for engines and if the Georges want to do something great start three or four feeder divisions. Then we can have an IndyCar with a blown injected chev smoke those ring a ding ding renault's
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