Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
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After thinking about this for a few days, I completely understand running the 410's on August 29th against Lincoln and The All Stars, with Port Royal running the big LOLMS $50,000 to win race, they are basically taking Port's place as an alternative for the 410's that night. However, it is the Saturday July 25th race up against Williams Grove and WoO that makes no sense to me. Out of all the races on Selinsgrove's 2020 schedule, this is the one race that could potentually be a financial disaster in terms of fans and car counts. For as long as I can remember, the central Pa tracks have always worked well together whenever schedulling the Outlaws. The promotors at Williams Grove, Lincoln and Port Royal have always had a "gentlemen's agrreement" to not schedule against each other on those nights. For whatever reason, Selinsgrove has chosen to ignore that agreement on July 25th. It will be very interesting to see how that race turns out for them???? Other than this one race, I think Selinsgrove did a great job of working with the other area tracks in presenting an appealing and diverse schedule for the fans.

Doesn't anyone remember that the Grove use to have the Outlaw shows on Thursday and Friday night. Then for some reason they switched to Friday and Saturday night, thus forcing Port and Lincoln to shut down on nights they use to race.  

So what about that gentleman's agreement?     Why did the Grove move the nights?

The Grove has the Outlaws six times in one year.  How many times can a person watch the same cars and format at the same track?     In my opinion the Outlaws race to many times at all tracks in our area.

On a side not I wonder how it is going to work out with the National Open and Port's Outlaw races now on back to back weekends. I predict that fans will have to make the choice on which weekend to attend.   Four  consecutive nights  of racing with  high dollar  admissions. will be tough on the fans. 

Speedweek is unsanctioned and the tracks are packed.  Put up a good purse for the end of year races and the cars and fans will show.  Especially with more teams choosing a true "Outlaw" schedule.   Screw sanctions and use the sanction fee to make the purse better back through.  And cheaper tickets or food for the fans, make more money back with volume.

Anyway ,  Thank you Selinsgrove Speedway. 

Seems like good points above.  When you have great racing all season its seems redundant ro host several high dollar high end shows but they must make money doing it. Tho I'm sure the WoO enjoy the visits to tracks with good counts, crowds and prize money. One thing theu are not doing jn PA is developing a following, cause its already there. Might be better to share the product with new and more markets.

Even though I may not know you, I 
care what most of you think!

Here is a hint...central PA promoters who know how to make money are not cut NG back their schedules. Some might make their entire operating budget on outlaw / special races alone but stay open on a weekly basis to help keep local racing alive even when it doesn't make good business sense. 

Bitching about the facts of life doesn't change the fact that there are two race nights a week that can attract crowds when the wealth cooperates. Picking week nights limits car counts (Speedweek is a good example) and fan support because people work.

What is wrong with 410 racers having two events to pick from if they don't have an outlaw caliber engine? What is stopping the very people bitching about this from attending a $15 show if they are complaining about outlaw ticket prices?

I attended 46 races last year...I think only 4 were outlaw races in PA. 

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

The Grove used to have Thursday-Friday outlaw shows because Hagerstown had them on Saturday. Before Hagerstown, I believe Lincoln had Saturday. When Hagerstown dropped the outlaws, neither Lincoln or Port were willing to step up and take that date so Williams Grove moved their shows to Fri-Sat, which is obviously better for fan draw.

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I agree with that but the problem is that most of the 410 teams that support Selinsgrove are the bigger teams with outlaw caliber engines. Not many of lower budget guys will risk blowing a motor on a big half-mile which they don't have much experience at. I think running against a WOO show could work out fine on a smaller track which might be able to draw those teams that sit out the WOO shows. Not sure how this one's gonna work out. I wouldn't be surprised if this date gets changed or a different division is run. They will probably feel it out and see if there's gonna be enough car/fan support. At least that would be the smart thing to do. No promoter wants to lose money.

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I have already talked to one lower budget team that is going to run Selinsgrove that night.  They usually run most of the Outlaw shows, but said they will have a better payout going to Selinsgrove.

Only issue I see out of this, and its not a major one now but could become one, is that I think it could potentially hurt the sport as a whole if tracks in the same area decide to schedule races against tracks having a sanctioned race with a major traveling series. As it was once stated in college business class, are you interested in taking a big slice of the pizza, or are you interested in trying to work to make the pizza bigger so that there will be more with each slice, meaning cooperation to grow the market

We see each year complaints from many people when the Outlaws go to a region such as PA, OH, etc that go along the lines of, "Why does track X have to close/not run sprints this week just cause the Outlaws/All Stars are racing at track Z? Don't they know that there are plenty of people who won't make the B-Main and by god those people need a place to race too!! I want to see those guys and not people who race for a living that may or may not have big budgets because this is how they pay their living bills, because I am a hardcore fan and do not like any of that mainstream stuff because it is too much like that nascar stuff."

Ok, so I may have overexaggerated a little bit but maybe not really either depending on the person. 1 of the reasons other tracks close or do not have sprints at other area tracks is because of cooperation. Do not create a divide amongst fans/dollars especially when there is a track taking more of a financial risk by paying a sanctioning fee and a higher purse. While competition does create efficiency at times, in the case of niche markets such as sprint car racing it could lead to the detrimental fate of both tracks.

Getting back to where this could hurt the sport, as a whole, is if it becomes common place where other area tracks decide to hold events while the Outlaws are in town at another track. If tracks start thinking that if they do a better purse than their weekly/standard purse, then they can get 20+ sprints and then fans come to their track and they make money. Meanwhile the track making the big financial sacrafice over time sees the car count go down, might make money that year but, the following year the attendance goes down because fans start thinking you know the car counts used to be 40+ now its only 25 why should I spend my money going, then car counts start getting lower and lower and the next thing you know it becomes like asphalt late model racing where your lucky to have 10-15 cars weekly, and your big marquee races only produce 30cars. Again, I doubt this will become common place because ultimately I do not think any track that schedules against an Outlaw race in the area is going to really be profitable. At least profitable to continue to do it. While I get the concept of giving the racer who may not finish well at the Outlaw race a better opportunity to race for more money & not hurt his equipment, I am not sure having another race in the area is the best way.

I'm over 1000 miles away so if this is a really stupid question don't beat me up too bad.

What was the last year Selingsgrove ran 410's weekly on Saturday nights?

The worst president of my lifetime:
Ronald Reagan

1997 for Saturdays, 98-00 they ran 410's on Sunday nights. When that didn't work out they went back to Saturday nights with 358's and then 360 sprints. 360's just haven't caught on in PA with car counts dwindling for both Selinsgrove and the URC.

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