Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I thought it was 2/5ths lol (wonder how many math wizards will have to think about that one). And is that just the bottom or middle or top?? Seems like this changes from person to person. It doesn't really matter to me either way, if I see a sprint car race on the schedule at Eldora, I usually clear my schedule for that day.

Using my Calibrated eyeballs, It appears that Eldora would just about fit in the Knoxville Infield! Giving a inch or 2 either way!

I believe WG is already the highest paying point fund payout in the area for the winner at $18,000. If I'm wrong someone correct me but I don't think any of the other local tracks are near that number. I think it does drop to $5,000 for second which is a substantial drop. Better pay back through the field and not all on the top could help with car counts as well as bonuses for attendance.  I'm not a fan of changing WG. Leave the shape of it alone.  Its been this way for over 75 years and has produced years of great racing with its current shape. The shape isn't the problem. New clay is badly needed combined with track prep that allows the track to widen to allow for two grooves.  Just to be clear, part of the track prep is cars running on it and they widen the track over the course of the night. When you only have four heat races worth of cars, 2 per class, that's not enough racing on it to make it really racy come feature time.  One problem is worsening another. 

Thanks for the information on the point fund.  I had do idea what they paid.  I agree more throughout the field or guarnteed amount for attendance.  It would be intersting to hear from some of the teams that do not run Grove but do run Port or Lincoln  why they do not.  Injuries this year have also hurt the counts with Wolf being out for a long stretch and Smith was out for part of the season. 

WOO measure the same way they measure every track they go to... .437 mile Eldora

WOO measured Williams Grove... .512 mile

No one has to agree with their measurements, but at least they measure them all the same way...

Largest Track the WOO actually raced at and wasn't rained out this year is .515 mile Knoxville...

Smallest Track the WOO actually raced at and wasn't rained out this year is .245 mile Fairbury Speedway...

My information all comes from WOO Twitter Page...

I don't really understand the point of the thread. The Grove is not going to spend money to shorten the track, so what is the point of a thread?

Like others have said, the lack of handicapping is what really makes for a lousy show there anymore.

     As long as they're still getting big crowds, 40 410's, and winners who have to race from 12th on back, they'll be fine. If that changes, it might be time to look at some options.

Thats the whole point. They're getting low car counts for weekly shows.

You're missing the whole point. The REASON that there are less owners is that its too expensive to run the big 1/2 mile.....at least thats what the discusson is about

This is 100% correct.  The ONLY problem with Williams Grove is track prep and a commitment to getting it right.  And they're not far off.  The main issue is that the straight aways are too wet.  This allows for your car to not be set up very good on exit, but you still have traction.  In comparison to Port Royal, where if you're not good on exit you sit and spin.  You hardly ever see passing on the exit of the corner, it's usually entering the corner and typically in 3 and 4.  When the straight aways are too wet it allows for you to almost cheat the corner and keep the car tight and get to the straight away and pedal down.  Put that on top of the straights being very narrow, and it makes passing very difficult.

I'm seeing your point but I also think there's more to it. I think the cost of racing in general is out of hand and as a result there are a lot of teams that can afford to run only one night a week. Look at the Sat night run down at both tracks and you can see there are multiple teams in that category. I believe part of the reason some, not all, choose to run a Sat night track is because the field is watered down as opposed to running on Fri. All the heavy hitters so to speak are going to be there on Fri but they will be split up on Sat thus giving a smaller team a chance to get a few spots closer to the front. If I can only afford to run one night a week, I'm running on Sat because my chances at a top 10 or even a top 5 are better than they are at the Grove. If the Grove would be changed and made smaller, do you think it would make a substantial difference in the car count? I don't. I will accept it might bring in a few but it's not going to make enough of a difference to justify the time and expense to change the track. If a team has only so much money to run one night a week, they only run one night a week and they are going to run where they feel they have the best chance. 

You can shorten all the tracks but that won't change the 45 degree wing angles and crazy shock packages. Traction is killing the sport. Putting the wings at 20 degrees and running $50 single stage shocks would be a start. Engine builders wouldn't go for it though and neither would the big time car owners. 

     In reference to your very last sentence: Where are most of the teams going to feel like they have the best chance? On a half mile, paperclip track with tight corners, or a 3/8 to 4/10 mile, paperclip track with tight corners?

That's correct. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. But if it is broke...

If you think I am missing the point, then list the owners that fielded a car 15-20 years ago and then list the car owners right now with the same deep pockets.  

The track was a big half mile 15-20 years ago and it is still a big half mile.  That part has not changed.  It was expensive to run the big half mile 15-20 years ago as well as today.  It is also expensive to run a sprint car anywhere.  Are their other factors that are associated with this discussion?  You bet.  I am not in disagreement of some of the other reasons provided, but I think my point on a lack of car owners with deep pockets is a valid one.  

What's the point of having a discussion board if you can't discuss anything? Man o man, some people just need to relax. I never said it was going to happen, just thought it would be interesting to talk about. Sheesh.

      So, what can be done about there not being enough car owners with deep pockets?

Good Question.  How do you attract a Bob Weikert or Al Hamilton or any others into sprint car racing and then get them to back a fully funded team?  Not Sure.  I do not know the history of these gentlemen getting into the sport.  

Most local sprint car teams anywhere in the country have limited sponsorship or they are family run.  I also know that most tracks if not all, do not have the payout that Williams Grove has in place.  The limited sponsorship teams at other tracks spend less money, probably on smaller tracks and race for a smaller winner's share.  So Williams Grove may be harder on motors, but there is a larger sum of money for the winner.  There are so many angles to this discussion.

Let's take the point that has already been stated, the Grove will most likely never reconfigure the track.  In my opinion, when it is reconfigured it will be for a housing development and then we all lose.  Bottom line, support the track that you have and that goes for sprint teams as well as the fans!

Sure, but there were 30 410's at Port Royal and 24 at Lincoln Saturday and neither track was paying as much as the Grove which drew 19. 

A

It's not simply about the where but who is there and the quality of that competition. For a one night a week team, it just makes more sense to run on a Sat. Ok, so they change the Grove. Now what? Are all these teams that currently only run either Lincoln or Port now going to be flocking to the Grove? No. You still haven't fixed the real problem. Teams that are currently able to run only one night a week aren't suddenly going to be able to run two. They still can only run one night and the likelihood that they will pick Sat night to run and not Fri night is very high because of the competition.  Back in the 80's there were 3 410 tracks on a Sat night and all generally had good fields. Did all those cars go to the Grove the night before? Definitely not because there would have been 60+ car fields every night.  Same reason then as now. Some only ran one night and they picked to run Sat because of the competition. Why do outsiders always say you haven't beaten the Posse until you win at the Grove? Because all the top guys are there each week but they get scattered at the Sat tracks. All this said, while the debate is interesting, it's totally pointless because I don't see it happening especially under current ownership.