Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

The argument that they didn't see Donny race is a bit ridiculous.  He DID qualify, right?  He DID run his heat and the B, right?  Or were y'all buying t-shirts and corn dogs when that was going on. . . .

www.manvelmotorsports.com

Hmm.  So less fan friendly.  You know, they ones who buy the tickets.  Lol.  With these rules why would ANY driver use a provisional now?  Maybe a test session?  It's awesome to have somone who knows post good information.  Thanks JG and keep up the good work.

I think if a driver had a car, that timed in well, had bad luck in a heat race, and was on a track they could race themselves forward on, he would use a provisional. But in the case of Tulare, these were not all happening. I am sure any Schatz fan that missed him in the A, will go to see him race again, given his track record, he in almost always in the Main.

thumbs up, WOO ................................ now, Johnny, try again on the heat situation  ....................... as a fan, i don't like follow the leader parades by locked down winged slot cars .......................................

dttfowtm ...  
Proud Member of Sprntlover's Babysitting Service
Pa Posse Says Race or Shut Your Pie Hole!
Work hard & become a leader. Be lazy & end up a slave.
I Challenge anyone to give an example of a program that
the government has managed efficiently and/or cheaper
than the private sector. Please no enactments, laws or
statutes.

but, what if your son is a fan of say a Robert Bell type that didn't make the main?  He gets no chance at a provisional (nor does any other Non-fulltime team/driver unless the WoO are at a track that races sprint cars weekly (PA, Knoxville, Badlands, Fremont, etc.)

IMO, it's about time a team/driver chose not to use a provisional.  If anything, it should tell the rule writers that they shouldn't have them.  You either race your way in or you don't.  If a team is having a horrible night as is way off the pace (or can't get the car to handle), they are more of a danger to everyone else on that track than they are entertainment for their fans.

Let's take a look at how well having teams "locked in" to the field is working for NASCAR and retaining fans in the stands....

I too hate them with a passion.  I understand why the promoters want them, but I hate them.  In my Nascar following days, I remember D.W. making a bunch of shows every year in the late-90's 4-6 seconds off of the pace of all other cars.   What a joke. 

I see the other side of Donny sitting--believe me.  I would just have been dissappointed if I came to see him run and he chose not too, that's all. 

I'm a bit confused as to the reasoning for no provisional points....."at the request of drivers/team owners, who didn't think it was fair that a driver/team that used all four provisionals could finish higher in points than a driver/team that didn't use any (or needed fewer)." To me that's a ridiculous statement. Any team that didn't need any provisionals or used fewer provisionals is already in the damn race. If they then get out pointed by somebody using provisionals they got passed and beaten at some point. 

My opinion provisionals are more for the fans or a sponsor to see that car on the track that given night. 

Regardless which side of this issues you stand (which is pretty freaking petty IMO) most of you are too quick to hate on Schatz... this type of call is typically made by the CC; ie Tricky Ricky... "load'er up boys"!

I agree with the current rules in place, they should outright drop the provisonals. The Fans saw Donny race enough they shouldnt feel like they where let down IMO. But again, I've traveled to NCAA Tournament games before and spent a whole lot more than a night as a fanat the track, and been let down. Its sports, it happens.

Next we will see promoters trying to make back door deals to run the feature and potentially guys getting more $ for being in back than several positions in front of them. Look at Nascar payouts, kinda like that. Promoters have enough on their plates to be put into that kind of situation....

I won't claim to speak for Mr. Gibson, but I believe he meant that in the final year-end points total, not for a specific race.

I am lucky enough to work at one of the best tracks 
anywhere.

I think this is regionalized.  Fans in CA, midwest (Knoxville, Ohio tracks) and PA would/should love the fact that Schatz was a DNQ and decided not to race.  These fans take pride in how many Outlaws DNQ against their locals and I think that's awesome.  They go to the races to see their locals beat the Outlaws.

If you are a fan in an area that doesn't have a strong local 410 base and you are there to see Schatz, Pittman, Saldana, etc., then you probably feel cheated that those guys DNQ for the feature.  These fans go to the races to see and cheer for the Outlaws.

I give Donny credit for not taking the provisional.  I'm guessing he knew he didn't deserve to be in the A main that night and didn't want to back his way in.  My guess is that it really pissed him and RW off and they'll go on a tear.  Thanks a lot, Tulare...

How many fans do you know that would buy a ticket to sit at an empty race track? I don't know any either. Fans are important but the teams just as important. Track owners and promoters are just as important because without them, the teams wouldn't have a place to race and the fans wouldn't have a place to go watch races. It takes everyone involved to make sprint car racing what it is. That includes the track workers, the sponsors and even the media because their coverage gets the word out on the street. So many people think that it should ALWAYS be all about what the fans want. Fans are a big part of it. No doubt about that but if we want it to work, it takes just as much from everyone else so they gotta try to keep the teams happy as well and the promoters need to make money to keep the series going and the track gates opening. I don't have a problem with this. In fact, I applaud it. If Donny didn't make the cut, he doesn't deserve to race the feature. I've always hated provisionals but at the same time, I do understand to some extent why they use them. But still, if I had my way, there would be no provisionals. They'd either earn their way in or load it up and try again next time. 

I did understand that the refrence was to the season long points.......which are totaled by what is earned each night of course, so If I used 4 provisinals and you used 3, but we were both still ran in 4 races and I out pointed you, it wasn't the extra provisional that gave me the edge. In 4 races I out raced you. That was the difference in the points total between us. 

Except that they shouldn't even be in the race because they didn't qualify, they had to use a provisional DUH! So take away the provisional and the guy who couldn't qualify dosnt get a free ticket into the A and the opportunity to out point me. Do you get it yet?

Vande77-I am missing your argument.  Robert Bell won't ever get a provisional.  So if he didn't qualify, how could I expect him to run?  Donny had an opportunity to run the A-main.  Why would you drag your entire team across the country to make A-mains and then when you get the chance to run the A-main, you load your car up?  And everyone needs to quit bringing up the $800 figure.  Are you serious?  TSR, Donny Schatz, souvenier sales, and corporate sponsors?  And everyone is stuck on the $800?  You take care of business and forget about a few hundred purse dollars.  Bad business decision.  Shouldn't be about the here and now of the moment.  He had the opportunity to run the A-main at a WOO event per the rules and bowed out. 

Now, lets put the shoe on the other foot shall we?  Lets say ol' Donny and Robert are at the same race last weekend.  The officials walk up to both drivers after they fail to make  the A-main and tell them they got a provisional.  Donny says he's going to load 'er up.  You think Robert is loading up his car or filling it with fuel?     I say he's racing. 

Bad example, but nice try.  If I owe my life to sprint car racing and I have an opportunity to run the A-main, I'm in the A-main.  If I don't care, I sit out.  The more I think about it the less I see his side of the story.  (Plus I've been drinking

Now-all that being said, get rid of the f#QWing provisionals and we can end this conversation.  But to give them a free spot in the A-main and have them say "nah".  Come on. 

Drivers turn down provisionals a lot more than most people realize (it even happened when they COULD earn A-main points).  Keep in mind they're not unliminted. Many drivers elect to "save" them for races that pay more, or races where the track conditions are much more conducive to passing that what we had (thanks to all of the rain) at Tulare last week.  

Makes sense.  If that were the reason, I would have an easier time understanding that.  Thanks for other angle. 

Well yeh I get it ! JG said there was a difference because of needing more provisionals than the next guy.....but even for the guy that uses none....if he gets beat he gets beat....DO YOU GET THAT!? I never said I liked provisionals. I don't think they belong either.

Good point. In fact, as someone else said, fans would be thrilled to see Donnie get beat at lots of places, especially Knoxville Nats

You can't please everybody. I can certainly understand fans being disappointed at him not racing, but his team is paying the bills & he's risking life & limb, its their call. Nobody has any obligation to race a sprint car, I mean its a pretty crazy thing to do at all, if you think about it....