Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

The alternative is spend 30-40K for engines to be competitive in the 360 class to race "semi locally" for only slightly more $$$ than Racesaver pays......anyone that puts on a new RR after a 10 lap heat race is either "very" rich, or just plain stupid......and if they do, I'd be standing in line to be buying the take-offs for a "deal" price.......in the third year of Racesavers, the competition level has raised greatly ( I beleive there were still 8 different winners in 14 weekly shows) there are guys that will always consistantly finish up front....a second year sprint driver finished second to a veteran racer by 1 point.........the best combination of driver, set-up will win out 8 times out of 10, some will spend more trying to equalize things between themselves and their competitors.........here's the deal:  it's not broke, it dosen't need fixing, everyone will ALWAYS try to over-analyze things, haters will always hate.........we have a good local 360 schedule and a good Racesaver schedule.....one thing is for certain: The Racesaver IMCA  Sprint Nationals will be an awesone event, alot of fun (if it dosen't rain..LOL, and provide some great competition.........let's go racin'.......JMO

You cannot stop people from spending money!! It just isn't going to happen. But, the point of Racesaver rules is that you don't HAVE to spend that huge amount to be competitive.

If the tracks are truly teching as they should, money doesn't matter.

As for the comment about the owner and Racesaver making money from the sale of tires, that's ludicrous.

VOTS said "haters will always hate", and I will add that those with no knowledge will always comment.

I am lucky enough to work at one of the best tracks 
anywhere.

Well Voice of the Speedway and Pit Shack guy you have both made some excellent points but neither one of you addressed the issues that I raised.

Racers will always spend whatever it takes to get faster and win. So is not the stated goal of Racesaver to protect racers from themselves.  How is allowing racers to bolt on high dollar parts a cost savings.  And saying they are stupid for doing it is really solving anything.  Why not truly be a cost effective class  by only running standard sprint car parts. Why allow racers to buy a titanium bolt kit for $1000 when a grade 8 kit is $100. You are both telling me that the 305's got started in your area because the 360 ' s got out of hand on costs. So how is allowing the same car with a 305 in saving the racers any money. And saying well spending money is a waste because it is not an advantage. Well is that not the same tune sung about the 360 class and 358 in my area when they started.  All it takes is 2 or 3 cars spending the big money to start winning and then the "race" is on the higher costs and thinner wallets. And the clock ticking for the next "Affordable" sprint car class.

And as for what was said about racing for not much less than a 360 that goes against the mission statement of what French Grimes said when he started Racesaver.  Go on the Racesaver website and read his philosophy,  big purses equal big spending. 

I agree with the purse Roger is paying just pointing out the fact it goes against the Racesaver motto.

Also on the tires so Roger and Racesaver out of the goodness of their heart gave Hoosier the tire contract and get no compensation for it. OK I have a bridge I like to sell.

And as far as myself having no knowledge of sprint cars. I guess owning, driving and working on one for 25 yrs doesn't count.

i don't see a ti wing tree or bolt kit being much of a competative advantage.  keep the ti off the rotating parts!  And police the heads! police the heads! police the heads!!!!! along with lightweight bottem ends!!!  I have heard of engine builders opening up heads beyond the stamping in other series.  not in racesaver yet.  I'm not an engine builder and don't know the specifics of undercover porting and all the goes with that, but the biggest deal is police the heads and lightweight rotating parts!!!  The penalty should be severe enough that it isn't worth doing.  Maybe lose your rights to seal motors or driver gets parked until next year.  The only way to keeping money out of it is to police it with extreme prejustice.

First of all, I was not referring to you with the comment about those who know not whereof they speak.

Actually, the Racesaver Series was begun by French Grimes as a cost effective alternative to the 360 engine class whose engine costs have now risen above the $40,000 mark as I understand. It was not originated in the Nebraska area.

If all engines are built by honest, above board builders who adhere to the rules (18: Ferrous material only: Valves, Seats, Retainers, Keepers, Push rods, Springs, Tappets, Cam, Crank, Rods, Wrist pins, Fasteners, Main Caps. Materials and processes including, but are not limited to; Titanium, Inconel, Ceramics, DLC, Nikasil, will not be permitted. ) to point out just one requirement; and are policed correctly and constantly they can be affordable and still remain competitive with high dollar engines.

Would you have it become a class where you have to buy your complete cars from a certified dealer? Because then you have the IROC Sprint Car Series. As I stated earlier; some people are going to outspend the rest of the racers. You cannot stop that! But, with strict adherance to the rules you can have racers who spend considerably less and still be able to stay with the high dollar teams.

I do have to ask though; is it so inconceivable that Roger and French's motives are not above board in spec'ing the Hoosier tire without some kick-back? Those 2 believe in the class, and are doing their very best to keep it affordable for those who wish to race it.

I am lucky enough to work at one of the best tracks 
anywhere.

To me the key is the payout.  If they pay $2,500 to win/$1,200 to start, there's a lot less incentive to pay to big bucks to win, as opposed to paying $10,000 to win/$600 to start.  It makes it a lot more "affordable" if the money is paid back through the field rather than to just a few at the front.

This may be too easy so it must be a bad idea. Why not build a car with the standard parts, less a good many of the light weight high dollar components, and then weigh the finished product? That weight then becomes the minimum allowable weight for the class. Exit the driver at the scales and weigh the damn car. Too bad if one driver outweighs another. It isn't horse racing it's driving a sprint car. 

So why didn't they spec the $105 Hoosier and not allow the American Racer that was better, but more expensive.....I'm sure we can all throw stones at any set of rules or specs ever written.......at least Racesaver approached Hoosier and asked for a durable Spec tire could be made at an affordable price...I beleive that is what they've done (I believe in the $175 range-still better than the $230/ tire the 360 guys are paying)....they also have a recommended (not spec) LR that is about $150 that will out last many of what others are running, yet still be good performancewise.......I don't remember any other sanctioning bodies getting someone to build them a spec tire that costs less, was more durable, competitive, and saved the racers money, plus put money into the points funds?......Our track record for the Racesaver 305 on a $175 spec RR is less than 3/4 second slower that the ASCS 360 track record with a $225 ASCS open right rear (not to mention the difference in engine costs.......I think the racesaver deal at least allows someone that may want to race a sprint car, a semi affordable way to do it....is it the class for everyone, probably not, but if the alternative was being a field filler in the 360 division, most wouldn't even consider it (in the past three years, we have many drivers sucessfully moving up from mini sprints (multi time feature winners and runner up in season long points), modifieds (more multi time feature winners), hobby stocks, and last years rookie of the year came out the the sport compact division and had a couple top five finishes......hence the drop off in car counts in the upper division (we won't even talk about what has happened to THOSE rules and the costs involved).......last season in the Racesaver division, there were competitive racers in everything from $4500 rollers to brand new $15,000 rollers....the fast guys will usually win, no matter what they're driving............but I digress- this thread about the growth of the Nationals  has gotten off track......I'm  done replying about rules.......I am more willing to talk about the event, the great competition, the commraderie (sp) of the racers, and an all around fun weekend for racers, fans, employees, alike.......ask anyone that's been there.........better yet, check it out yourself next Labor Day weekend...........  Have a good day-racing season is getting closer............SC

Already 55 cars registered and its only March! Check out the list of drivers that is already forming:  http://www.racesaver.com/sprint-nationals/pre-registered-drivers/

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