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Topic: Did Steve ever win over 22 races in one year
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Page 2 of 3 of 48 replies
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August 18, 2015 at
11:48:23 AM
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Schatz has greater local competition by far, than existed in the 80s and even 90s.
I don't get the sense in the current group of Outlaws, or this era for that matter, holds a candle to Sammy or Wolfgang, however many of Steve's really big years, 1987 included, neither Sammy or Wolfgang ran the tour full time.
I think Schatz's resume makes him #2 in the Outlaws era, whether you think he's the 2nd best driver is up for debate, but his resume is better than Wolfgang's or Sammy's.
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August 18, 2015 at
12:01:37 PM
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WOW please don't start down playing other drivers from those era's.
With out those times there wouldn't be these time's.
Next you will be down playing Jan Opperman for winning 44 out of 90 main events in the same season.
Rick Ferkel,Chuck Gurney,McSpaden,Boyd,Van Conett on and on tony stewart, even donny all greats that were beat by the king 1 time or a hundred.
I'm not a big kinser fan ,but he run's the guts out of a race car.
14 Knoxville nationals,20 woo championships,600+ win's on and on.
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August 18, 2015 at
01:38:46 PM
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If we are splitting hairs, which is looks like we are, everyone is missing Steve won 56 races that year all told. 46 of them were Outlaw races.
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August 18, 2015 at
02:29:34 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: veteranracer on August 18 2015 at 06:04:27 AM
Wolfgangs cars were on display in the HoF at Knoxville and the man had some fantastic years . Noticed in the Weikerts Livestock car he won 17 in a row . Very interesting display and impressive stats. Several years were 40 wins...
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Doug won 55 features in 85 start back in 1985, 44 features in 1986 in Weikert's #29.
And also won 43 features in 1989 in Peace's #8D
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August 18, 2015 at
03:17:14 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: henry chinaski on August 18 2015 at 09:17:04 AM
You've got that wrong actually. Steve won a ton in an era where few teams had really good equipment and teams were still building some of their own stuff especially motors. So equipment it could be rightfully argued was the differentiator back then. Nowadays you have everyone on top notch similar equipment thereby negating the advantage that equipment alone had held for so many years and puts extra demand on driving ability. I say this without any reservation, it's harder to win and be dominant today than it was back in the 70's, 80's and early 90's.
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but. but.but Karl built his own engines and did not even dyno them
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August 18, 2015 at
03:38:59 PM
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Kinser won in something Schatz couldnt, a usac silver crown car.
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August 18, 2015 at
03:42:25 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: henry chinaski on August 18 2015 at 09:17:04 AM
You've got that wrong actually. Steve won a ton in an era where few teams had really good equipment and teams were still building some of their own stuff especially motors. So equipment it could be rightfully argued was the differentiator back then. Nowadays you have everyone on top notch similar equipment thereby negating the advantage that equipment alone had held for so many years and puts extra demand on driving ability. I say this without any reservation, it's harder to win and be dominant today than it was back in the 70's, 80's and early 90's.
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Exactamundo! Steve also had Karl during his most successful years who was without a doubt the best ever crew chief. Mark Kinser dominated the WOO for a few years with Karl turning the wrenches. It's tough to judge different eras but to me it's more impressive dominating nowadays with everyone having the same equipment.
A
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August 18, 2015 at
03:50:35 PM
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Posted By: SprintFan16 on August 18 2015 at 10:30:49 AM
I can agree with this - but still think it was a combination of the two (difference in equipment and driver skill). With the cars more "racy" it typically allowed the cream to rise. Harder to get up front nowadays given the parity in equipment.
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Were the cars more racy or was it the haves blowing by the have nots? hmmm? Your last sentence says it all. Donny won the super bowl of sprint car racing last year from what 20-something starting position?
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August 18, 2015 at
03:54:40 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Apollo on August 18 2015 at 03:38:59 PM
Kinser won in something Schatz couldnt, a usac silver crown car.
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Don't remember Donny running silver crown but he won in a late model.
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August 18, 2015 at
03:59:50 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: SprintFan16 on August 18 2015 at 10:31:57 AM
We'll never know. Even the cars in 2005 weren't nearly as locked down as they are now. Can't just compare ages, everything about the sport was different than it is now.
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True but I've seen drivers who dominated a decade or 2 ago who struggle nowadays with the parity and I think there is more to it than age.
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August 18, 2015 at
04:46:47 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: HoldenCaulfield on August 18 2015 at 03:59:50 PM
True but I've seen drivers who dominated a decade or 2 ago who struggle nowadays with the parity and I think there is more to it than age.
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I struggle more with everything than I did 10 or 20 years ago!!!
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August 18, 2015 at
05:16:50 PM
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Schatz has no where near the competition Kinser had. Three NASCAR sprint car owners make up 30% of the cars on tour and have accounted for 65% of the Feature wins this year. I'd bet nearly 7 out of the 10 heats and Feature races Schatz and his competitors win on the WoO tour are from the front row. Maybe the second row. The car and money today is more important than the driver. Schatz has exactly what Kinser had in his day. A team that has the experience to understand that you continually run the same equipment year in and year out. Karl Kinser made few changes over the years, and so has Donny. What other team out there anywhere in the country has more than a few years together? And in regards to older drivers .....Lasoski at 55 and Sammy at 60 are still beating a good many of the drivers out there today when they are in good equipment.
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August 18, 2015 at
07:24:13 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: HoldenCaulfield on August 18 2015 at 03:42:25 PM
Exactamundo! Steve also had Karl during his most successful years who was without a doubt the best ever crew chief. Mark Kinser dominated the WOO for a few years with Karl turning the wrenches. It's tough to judge different eras but to me it's more impressive dominating nowadays with everyone having the same equipment.
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Donny has Ricky Warner.
When Warner was with KKR Joey was beating Donny.
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August 18, 2015 at
08:13:16 PM
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This message was edited on
August 18, 2015 at
08:14:03 PM by kylenap
Reply to:
Posted By: HoldenCaulfield on August 18 2015 at 03:54:40 PM
Don't remember Donny running silver crown but he won in a late model.
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http://www.racingwest.com/news/articles/6586-re-technologies-racing-heads-to-indianapolis.html
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August 19, 2015 at
08:45:23 AM
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Let's take a look at the competition level. Right now on any given night of racing there are over a dozen cars on the track that are capable of winning a race but Schatz seems to always slam the door and come out on top. I find it extremely hard to believe when Kinser was in his prime there were also this many cars on the track that could win. Yes I know he was also running against the greats of Sammy, Wolfgang, Doty, and etc. but really think about it when Kinser was winning all his races the competition level wasn't anything like it is today. I am not taking anything away from Steve because he always will be the King of the Outlaws, but in their prime Donny wins 4 out of 5 races.
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August 19, 2015 at
10:22:08 AM
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The competition was just as good or better in the late 70's early 80's..If you ever really watched Steve Kinser in his prime this isn't even a question worth answering. I have watched many, many races over my more than 60 yrs. and saw more greats than I can remember but Steve is the one that had me walking out the pit gate shaking my head more than any other. Not car, not competition but what he did in the car. Absolutely fierce competitor!!!
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August 19, 2015 at
11:01:58 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: baggo23t on August 19 2015 at 08:45:23 AM
Let's take a look at the competition level. Right now on any given night of racing there are over a dozen cars on the track that are capable of winning a race but Schatz seems to always slam the door and come out on top. I find it extremely hard to believe when Kinser was in his prime there were also this many cars on the track that could win. Yes I know he was also running against the greats of Sammy, Wolfgang, Doty, and etc. but really think about it when Kinser was winning all his races the competition level wasn't anything like it is today. I am not taking anything away from Steve because he always will be the King of the Outlaws, but in their prime Donny wins 4 out of 5 races.
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The dozen cars that you speak of are only doing so (with rare exception) from the front row. Which is also where Donny is winning the majority of his races. In their primes it's Kinser hands down!
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August 19, 2015 at
11:18:53 AM
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Gotta remember the older formats. Very seldom did Steve start on the front..Even some of his 12 Nats wins. Todays format is tuned for the 14 regulars mostly.
Sprints rule
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August 19, 2015 at
01:00:19 PM
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You all think Donny wins just because he starts on the front row? Two years ago I watched Schatz win the B main, start 21st in the A and park his ass in victory lane. What was the farthest back Steve won the nationals, 13th or 14th I believe? We don't even know if Schatz is in his prime yet because every year he just keeps getting better and impresses more than the year before. And also I feel sorry for you "Possee" fans that say time after time again how the talent in the Outlaws is down so much this year, check the top 5 finishers in the Nationals this year. Outlaw-Outlaw-Outlaw-Outlaw-Outlaw
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August 19, 2015 at
01:54:01 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: baggo23t on August 19 2015 at 01:00:19 PM
You all think Donny wins just because he starts on the front row? Two years ago I watched Schatz win the B main, start 21st in the A and park his ass in victory lane. What was the farthest back Steve won the nationals, 13th or 14th I believe? We don't even know if Schatz is in his prime yet because every year he just keeps getting better and impresses more than the year before. And also I feel sorry for you "Possee" fans that say time after time again how the talent in the Outlaws is down so much this year, check the top 5 finishers in the Nationals this year. Outlaw-Outlaw-Outlaw-Outlaw-Outlaw
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Schatz had 50 laps with a "time-out" to do it in, in the A Main......Look at Wolfgangs 2 alphabet runs in '88 and '90. The final 2 races each of those years, the B and the A...he started 21st in the B both years and advanced to the A (Donny started up front in his B) and Doug started 21st in both A Mains (same as Donny) and raced to 5th both years in only 30 laps....without a "time-out". When Steve won the Nationals from 14th, it was in 30 laps, also without a "time-out". Be careful the next time you want to debate comparisons when it comes to ackomplishments. And YES....Donny and company win more races from the front row today than ever before! P.S. I'm a fan from the midwest....so not a Posse cheerleader. I've been a fan of and followed the WoO from day one!
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