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Topic: Will Stewart All Stars finally be able to win at the Grove after 47 years?
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April 11, 2015 at
04:47:41 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: cubicdollars on April 11 2015 at 06:51:50 AM
Pretty sad. 9 358s at Trailway and 20 410s at the Grove. Late model tire on the LR, modified tire on the RR and a wing angle rule... and the 410s, 360s and 358s would all be racing together. No wing adjuster. Has to be in front of the rear axle. Angle easily measured at the scales after the races. They also shouldn't be able to touch the tires other than grinding them back to life. No cutting/siping. Give the fans unlimited cubic inches like the late models do. That way they can see real racing that is sustainable by a single small business. Not 5 small businesses on one car that used to sponsor 5 cars or national corporations like the Outlaws need.
WoO Late Model Engine Rule:
15.1 Engines
A.) Only conventional type V-8 engines with the cam in the block will be permitted. There will be no limit on the cubic inch displacement.
B.) All engines must be based on a manufactured, factory design.
Bobby Adamson racing with Kenny Weld and Lynn Paxton on route to winning the first Williams Grove All Star show in 1970. Nice wings and tires? Out of control with only 400 hp?
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11 inch rt rear & 8 inch Lr and no one will come watch. It is not 1970 anymore. Tracks here that dropped late models from the show and made IMCA mods the headline class lost a lot of their crowds also. Nobody is going to watch 410s at knoxville time in the 18 second bracket. Just like the NFL can not go back to a 250 pound man being the largest guy on the field & wr and rb's that run 5.8 in the 40 yard dash
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April 11, 2015 at
05:23:20 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: oswald on April 11 2015 at 04:47:41 PM
11 inch rt rear & 8 inch Lr and no one will come watch. It is not 1970 anymore. Tracks here that dropped late models from the show and made IMCA mods the headline class lost a lot of their crowds also. Nobody is going to watch 410s at knoxville time in the 18 second bracket. Just like the NFL can not go back to a 250 pound man being the largest guy on the field & wr and rb's that run 5.8 in the 40 yard dash
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Nailed it. Things change and time marches on. I'm sure the 70's were exciting as was every era of sprint car racing in its own way but you can't just reset the clock. Its now 2015 and things are the way they are in 2015. The whiners either need to go to the races and enjoy it or stay the hell home and find something else to do.
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April 12, 2015 at
09:40:02 AM
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There's many reasons for the 410 car counts at Williams Grove. Weather being the main one. Lower buck teams can't afford to be hurting or ruining motors two races into the season. When it's cool and damp, that track requires a lot of motor. plus friday, buckwalter was in indiana and Dewease's rig broke down.
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April 12, 2015 at
12:42:20 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: oswald on April 11 2015 at 04:47:41 PM
11 inch rt rear & 8 inch Lr and no one will come watch. It is not 1970 anymore. Tracks here that dropped late models from the show and made IMCA mods the headline class lost a lot of their crowds also. Nobody is going to watch 410s at knoxville time in the 18 second bracket. Just like the NFL can not go back to a 250 pound man being the largest guy on the field & wr and rb's that run 5.8 in the 40 yard dash
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Modified RR and Late Model LR would be more than enough to allow them to do away with the 410 limit. Both use 14" wide wheels. Modified tire has a 13" tread width. A big block modified weighing 2500 lbs manages just fine. Fans already watch 360s and 305s at Knoxville, plus the track slows down several seconds for the 410s when it gets slick. All the fans would know was that now they get to watch unlimited sprint cars with the best drivers from all classes competing against each other.
"I didn't see a big problem when we had to put on the 16" (wide right rear tire) for the ASCS show. I think 16" is a move in the right direction, but it plain and simply is not enough. The tire companies will probably freak out on this, but I believe we need to cut the left rear width back to around 12" to help take some of the drive out of the car. Less tire, less power needed." - Jeff Swindell
They don't even know how to spell sprint car
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com
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April 13, 2015 at
02:02:40 AM
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Why stop there. Lets go back to knobby tires and wire wheels. Lets challenge these so called great drivers with an external brake. Take away the fuel pumps (saves money) and go back to pressurized fuel tanks that the driver has to keep pumping up by hand. Take away the power steering (more $ saved).
Good luck finding a sanction or promoter to go along with your tire and wing ideas.
Talk to me again when you have 20 or more sprint car racers who want 12" rear tires. I find no reason to think Jeff Swindell is the biggest expert on sprint car racing. When was the last time he was a real factor in a 410 car?
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April 13, 2015 at
02:19:37 AM
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31 410 cars at a recent King of the West show, 35 at Atomic, 29 at Freemont, 27 at Farmington and 40 at Burlington. 20 at the Grove. Don't think you need to save all
410 racing, just that in Pa. Is the Grove allowing the new SOFTER hoosier tire in weekly races this year? Or are they being smart like Knoxville & the NSL and not letting it be used?
Maybe the Pa promoters should quit worrying about competing with the WoO and build their weekly programs. When Knoxville came out with the 1200 lb rule it was to grow the saturday night races. They didn't worry about if that ment the locals would not be used to lighter cars when they ran against the WoO and therefor be at a dis advantage. The posse did not use a weight rule till the WoO did. Keep letting the WoO write your rule book and you will keep running car owners out of the sport.
I would rather have a strong weekly show wth 12-16 cars capable of winning on any given night than be able to brag about the locals beating the Outlaws and only having 20 cars running the weekly shows.
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April 13, 2015 at
03:08:10 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: oswald on April 13 2015 at 02:19:37 AM
31 410 cars at a recent King of the West show, 35 at Atomic, 29 at Freemont, 27 at Farmington and 40 at Burlington. 20 at the Grove. Don't think you need to save all
410 racing, just that in Pa. Is the Grove allowing the new SOFTER hoosier tire in weekly races this year? Or are they being smart like Knoxville & the NSL and not letting it be used?
Maybe the Pa promoters should quit worrying about competing with the WoO and build their weekly programs. When Knoxville came out with the 1200 lb rule it was to grow the saturday night races. They didn't worry about if that ment the locals would not be used to lighter cars when they ran against the WoO and therefor be at a dis advantage. The posse did not use a weight rule till the WoO did. Keep letting the WoO write your rule book and you will keep running car owners out of the sport.
I would rather have a strong weekly show wth 12-16 cars capable of winning on any given night than be able to brag about the locals beating the Outlaws and only having 20 cars running the weekly shows.
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Knoxville hosts the Outlaws June 13th. See what tire they run then.
They don't even know how to spell sprint car
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com
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April 13, 2015 at
03:17:05 AM
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Oswald makes a great point. The sport is being governed from the top down, rather than the bottom up. This is supposed to be grass roots racing, and it's been in a slow decline since everyone started chasing the outlaws.
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April 13, 2015 at
01:57:10 PM
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1995
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Reply to:
Posted By: cubicdollars on April 13 2015 at 03:08:10 AM
Knoxville hosts the Outlaws June 13th. See what tire they run then.
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Thats my point. Knoxville will not let that tire be used weekly. Even if that means their regulars are not used to it when they run with the outlaws at knoxville. Of course WoO rules are used at their sanctioned shows. IS THAT SOFTER TIRE LEGAL AT THE GROVE EVERY WEEK???
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April 13, 2015 at
04:46:12 PM
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12/09/2008
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2403
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Reply to:
Posted By: cubicdollars on April 11 2015 at 06:51:50 AM
Pretty sad. 9 358s at Trailway and 20 410s at the Grove. Late model tire on the LR, modified tire on the RR and a wing angle rule... and the 410s, 360s and 358s would all be racing together. No wing adjuster. Has to be in front of the rear axle. Angle easily measured at the scales after the races. They also shouldn't be able to touch the tires other than grinding them back to life. No cutting/siping. Give the fans unlimited cubic inches like the late models do. That way they can see real racing that is sustainable by a single small business. Not 5 small businesses on one car that used to sponsor 5 cars or national corporations like the Outlaws need.
WoO Late Model Engine Rule:
15.1 Engines
A.) Only conventional type V-8 engines with the cam in the block will be permitted. There will be no limit on the cubic inch displacement.
B.) All engines must be based on a manufactured, factory design.
Bobby Adamson racing with Kenny Weld and Lynn Paxton on route to winning the first Williams Grove All Star show in 1970. Nice wings and tires? Out of control with only 400 hp?
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Thanks Cubic. Most interesting thing on here in years. Nothing made in China in sight.
Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?
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April 13, 2015 at
05:32:59 PM
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Not to answer a question with a question but will a Williams Grover win a race not at Williams Grove?
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April 13, 2015 at
06:46:23 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Junior on April 13 2015 at 05:32:59 PM
Not to answer a question with a question but will a Williams Grover win a race not at Williams Grove?
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Ryan Smith just won at Attica.
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April 13, 2015 at
06:58:22 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Junior on April 13 2015 at 05:32:59 PM
Not to answer a question with a question but will a Williams Grover win a race not at Williams Grove?
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Hodnett won a non-points race at Volusia in Feb...'Williams Grovers' as you call them have beaten the All Stars at other central Pa tracks also.
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April 13, 2015 at
09:27:47 PM
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Pretty sure Kreitz has a Kings Royal win, as did Walker, Rahmer has many wins in many many different states and in canada. Hodnett won in Volusia, and im pretty sure one all star has one here in how many years and it was blaney. When was the last time holtgraver won outside of Ohio?
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April 15, 2015 at
03:25:31 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: oswald on April 13 2015 at 01:57:10 PM
Thats my point. Knoxville will not let that tire be used weekly. Even if that means their regulars are not used to it when they run with the outlaws at knoxville. Of course WoO rules are used at their sanctioned shows. IS THAT SOFTER TIRE LEGAL AT THE GROVE EVERY WEEK???
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Yes, it is legal here all the time. Our race teams make a lot of money off the Outlaw shows. Dewease won $20k last year and Stevie was going to win $50k until Gravel took him out. They don't want to be at a disadvantage when they come to town, so our tracks follow the Outlaw rules all season long.
They don't even know how to spell sprint car
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com
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April 15, 2015 at
11:50:13 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: cubicdollars on April 13 2015 at 03:08:10 AM
Knoxville hosts the Outlaws June 13th. See what tire they run then.
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yep, they'll run the softer one then, but they won't in August when it counts.
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April 22, 2015 at
07:21:34 PM
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UNOH All Stars take on PA Posse
http://www.allstarsprint.com/news/?i=28455
They don't even know how to spell sprint car
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com
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April 22, 2015 at
07:30:44 PM
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Dale Blaney has 115 career ASCoC wins, but has never won at Williams Grove Speedway.
They don't even know how to spell sprint car
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com
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April 22, 2015 at
07:53:52 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: cubicdollars on April 22 2015 at 07:30:44 PM
Dale Blaney has 115 career ASCoC wins, but has never won at Williams Grove Speedway.
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Cubicdollars has 0 career ASCoC wins and has never won at Williams Grove.
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April 22, 2015 at
09:21:40 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: cubicdollars on April 15 2015 at 03:25:31 AM
Yes, it is legal here all the time. Our race teams make a lot of money off the Outlaw shows. Dewease won $20k last year and Stevie was going to win $50k until Gravel took him out. They don't want to be at a disadvantage when they come to town, so our tracks follow the Outlaw rules all season long.
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And you claim it is the softer tire that is running owners out of the sport. Then thank the Grove management for the small car counts rather than bitching about it here! Again, I would rather have a healthy weekly show like Knoxville than watch a small field of cars every week just so they can win at home vs the outlaws.
How many tires could Stevie's team buy with all that money he was "going to win"? I bet " was going to win" money does not buy much!
You quote Dewease as saying something needed done about the tires but your own tracks ignore that and let the WoO write their rule book for them. The promoters in Pa must not be smart enough to know the WoO rules are written for big money teams that race coast to coast for $10000 to win not guys that race for $3600 to win and $350 to finish last in the A.
Best solution is for you to go watch those unlimited late model taxi cabs that have perfect rules. Amazing that the taxi cab message boards have so many people complaining about the state of late model racing. Maybe they just are not as smart as you and can't see all the passing & great racing that you do.
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