Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Aluminum blocks are an option for 2016 but you'll have to add weight if you have one. This is just Ascs admitting that there "spec" head hasn't been "spec" in 15+ years and with this rule they wont have to tech this area anymore. This crushes average 360 teams especially at Knoxville where hp is king, look for more racesaver/Knoxville 305s or underfunded 410 teams. Knoxville will still have 10 or so 360s made up of the big money teams and the trust fund kids.

this is the best thing that has happened to 410 racing in years.

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

I totally agree about the Spec head should remain a spec Head . I have bitched about this for years . Teching is imperitive to the survival of any affordable racing . I am very concerned about the Racesaver series heading down this same road . Hope Im wrong .Spec. Head means Pull it out of the Box and "BOLT IT ON , NO BULLSHIT about it .

Emmett got his pockets padded well & at the end of the day thats all that matters

So if a guy sent in an engine to get freshened up at the end of last season and it was done before the 11th of december (assuming the date announced at the show) they have a fresh motor sitting that is outdated before it even touches the track... well done ASCS, WELL DONE! Maybe they should do some interviews talking about the local guys at national shows being B and C rate drivers just to make sure they piss off 99% of the drivers that race in that series.

Since we all know we're never going back wouldn't the majority of 360 racers be better off if the head rules were opened up?  Start with their head and do whatever you want except for maybe valve angles.  With the latest vague rules and interpretations you have to have them worked on by the guys who know what their doing anyway.  I wouldn't think it would cost any more than the current CNC porting does.  It may even be cheaper in the long run since then wouldn't have to worry about the logo or size or trying to disguise what they're doing.  There wouldn't be one guy pushing the rules further than another and charging more for it.  Everyone would know they have the same thing as everyone else again, like it was supposed to be in the first place.  My first option would be to go back to original rules.  But I'm realistic enough to know that ain't gonna happen.  I'm also realistic enough to know no one wants to tear down motors.  And even if you do the current rules are so vague they can make any decision they want and there's nothing you can do about it.  It's the number one reason for the declining interest in 360 racing and in my opinion the only way to possibly save 360s is to do something like this and take the major cheating out of it that we all know is going on now.  The only reason I can come up with for ASCS not wanting to do something like that is it would eliminate their ability to make any decision they want, when they want, depending on circumstances.  That in itself is enough for me to saw "so long".  Get rid of that crap and it might be a fun class again.  Thoughts??

Put a restrictor in a 3 bolt exhaust flange,  and open up all the engine rules.. If you can't push it out.. Tell me how well you can suck it in... 

  MoOpenwheel, I think youre right.  And the 2 3/16th restrictors in the injection would be the limiting factor and very easy to tech.  

  We don't have ASCS out here in Oregon this year.  We have the same rules as the Civil War Series in Cali so all is good.  I own a car and am very happy.  Haven't heard anybody else complain either.

I think cobra has the right idea. Limit the backside of the engine. Kind of like letting air in through a fire hose and then trying to expell it from a bendy straw. 

ASCS is now at a point that the head rules are doing nothing but costing teams more money.  For the amount of money spent on the initial heads/labor and then "legal" porting, and now things are opened up even more.(this stuff was already being done by the engine builders before)  Its a total waste to have a spec head.  It would make more sense to go back to run any brand 23 degree head and use the gasket again.  It would add more diversity and the costs wouldnt be any higher.

All ASCS is doing is making money off the heads.  and doing easy checks in tech to get a pass or fail.  The next thing will be the spec block,  Why should you have to buy a new block with a higher price tag because of the ASCS apporved logo when you could utilize a good used 410 block for 1/3 of the money? 

A 410 may be a better option because of higher payouts,  With an aluminum block,  big bore short stroke, keyed lifters, titainium parts in the engine, 5000.00 injectors,  the price to build a 360 is close to a 410?  with the rpm the 360's now turn the cycle life is almost the same?  whats the point? 

The 360's should have never got to this point,  the heads should be what you want to run with an intake restrictor gasket,  max compression of 12 to 1 and max bore of 4.060.  590 to 600 hp at the most using prepped stock blocks,  the racing would be the same or better than it is now and would allow low budget teams to put there own engines together for under 18,000 to 19,000 brand new.  instead of 30,000 on up to 55,000

as stated, ASCS has gotten out of hand and is at the point of no return , the constant evolvement of rules directed to the heads  has taylored into something that was previously illegal , but not monitored close enuff,  the lagitimicy  of the heads has slipped thro the fingers of tech, now it poses the problem, heck,  half the field is illegal because everyone wants the advantage, (why,  I dont know, locally the 360 payouts are terrible) regardless,  any driver will ask his engine builder to give them a advantage,  NOW, realism of ASCS has come to a crossroads, apparently they are not intrested in letting go of the relationship with Brodix, (IMO gaskets are the  most logical answer) ASCS is faced with competitors with port work that is illegal pre 2015 , and gaskets with open heads is a $$ revinue killer, Brodix has a tight clinch on this deal, and thier not about to let go, so, thus the open porting becomes legal, last years engine is now curved into legal portwork (lets just conform around what rule will not sacrafice loss in the attendance) and heck, maybe boost it? if your heads are not lagit for 2015, well, ASCS recieves alot of static,  and  they are now .. seems to bend in the favor of ASCS attendance possibilities  not the pockets of racers, we all know the direction this ASCS deal has been going for years, once a good thing now is out of hand, National teams/and well funded tours have ruined a 360 platform, its not EZ to point the fingers at just one thing, but the loss of teching the heads in the first place got them into this mess, now there is no way to back up ,  well, introducing the 305, the rest is history..

Well there are plenty of touring series here in the midwest such as JSTS, Umss, MSTS, Nebraska 360's that could still all elect to walk away from adopting this rule.. And if they do most likely you will not see much in the way of ASCS shows in these areas..

Tires would solve this issue! Bolt D3b's on the rear. Late Models run all types of engines and always have good car counts. Tires do the trick. 

Sprints rule

Well this is all interesting, especially as I am planning on building a 360 this year and will be running out of the northwest Iowa region. Anybody have any ideas of how we can petition to ASCS? I'd think they'll listen to enough voices if we all speak up.

You're obviously new to ASCS. Good luck.  

Is there a single ASCS show within 250 miles of Jackson and Sioux Falls?  It would be pretty easy for them to band together and enforce the old rule, or go the route of restricting the flow.  It would impact the 3 ASCS shows in Nebraska, but that is it.  That certainly shouldn't be enough to compromise an entire schedule which has close to 40 races in the area when you add in Jackson and the South Dakota tracks.  No reason they cannot pass their own rules as they aren't ASCS affiliated any more.

As a motor builder i think this will help the under funded teams. Until now they could not afford the so called legal port job before. Now the port job will cost them less because there is nothing to hide in the port area. It will save teams around 900.00 per my calculations on a port job. I dont think this is a bad move at all. All of the keyboard cowboys on here dont have any idea what the rule means money wise or horsepower wise. Just my opinion you dont have to agree with me and most of you wont, i'm sure. Take it for what it's worth. 360's in my opinion are still alive and well compaired to the 410's or the 305's. The 360 guy's that I have talked to are not planning on going to a 305, and most dont want to go to a 410 for lack of races in their area.

OK, a motor builder! Maybe you can answer my question: Does anyone port with a grinder anymore, or is it all CNC? just curious...

 There are still some hand porters out there but I'd say it's about 90% CNC anymore