Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

last time this topic came up I voiced my opinion and almost had to start firing foolish shots at people, Ill say it again, I wish (in my world) the tethers would undergo a testing period, a grace period,  to analize several different concepts to satisfy competition directors, the  worthieness of one,  or several products, to "landslide" the requirements of the one tether manufacture is rather bias, whats wrong with contingencies awarded to teams testing the product, if your involved in incident its pretty EZ to recoginse the use of a tether, why not award that team with product or vouchers for more product, there is NO marketing involved in the tether deal, its strong arm tactics.. maybe not a big deal from the stands rather than a sigh of relieve, we have to use them (specifically one brand) its not the fans problem from that point, I understand, getting hit (god forbid) in the stands as a driver (im a fan too)  isnt my problem, should i turn the other cheek on the issue,  (well no)  I would feel terrible if incident beyond my control causes anyone a health -life threatning problem. maybe even sideline my peanut operation completly.. thats a road I hope not to travel down..

Anybody remember the 80's home video craze a underground battle that never hit main stream as large as it could have  it was stopped short of plublic premature, it was the Betamax , I belive Sony had hands in this "better" casset and player, VHS was out and in large portion, the Beta was smaller and a better picture, fact was fact, the Beta was better, if the rights had been sold with plublic utilizeaton in mind the costs woulds have went in the avenue of quanity over quality, the costs were expensive for the Beta , the rights were sold to individuals trying to keep the empire of VHS in control of the Video market. Beta was destin for failure with time.. Beta is a never was and a superior product that was shunted out of the video world ..  its all about the $$$$..

This is the problem with Sprint Car Racers. You morons are too Macho to spend $200 to save a life but you'll spend $40,000 for an engine and not worry about the driver or the people in the stands.  WTF !!!!!

too funney, and if a tree falls in the forest does it make a noise?, really, personally, I have NOT spent 40k on a engine, last I checked,  it wasnt about a macho status either, you have every right not to attend a race for any reason you wish, hell brother/sister, your in America, enjoy your freedom, the only moron I speculate is the one that cannot read my posts, (thats just rued,im sorry,I appologize, some people cant read, thats fine, total different topic) go back, reread, hash out my words in your mind, and try to come up with a respectable opinion. if you think drivers are still out of line for questioning a purchase of tethers, then you have made your bias decision , drivers spend uncountable amounts of dough on safety, a WoO show that is proving to be a loss financhally isnt worthy of competitors puchasing more equipment for the same pay,  some people are acting like this axle tether is going to be thier guardian angle, like nothing else will harm them at a night at the races, those tethers should keep the drunks off the streets/stands/bars and the second hand smoke from you too, but, look out for flying rocks, Heck some places warn you of it.. good thing the majority of items on a sprintcar are held together by two bolts,zipties and fiberglass fastners.. Im just guessing your not a sprintcar fan,  sprintcars and the morons who race them thier too dangerous , maybe we should quit racing them. sad,  but true, your 80% more likely to get hit by a drunk driver on your way home from a sporting event than to be struck by a piece of flying debris from a racecar.....

If safety equipment is too expensive then you shouldn't be racing.  Here is why.  Let's say you get in a crash and your helmet cracks.  If you think spending another $400 on a helmet overextends your safety budget you cut back on other expenses instead (less new tires, maybe race less or not travel to an event you planned on going to).

This is no different than someone that runs a business or owns a home.  A homeowner has to choose between maintenance on their house or going and having fun at the races in some instances (I know people that have skipped their annual trip to an event such as the King's Royal or Nationals because their home required a new roof or windows).

Safety equipment is no different.  I have to spend $200 on axle tethers so I'll skip running at (insert track here) at the end of April and that will pay for it (because if you are a BUDGET RACER), you plan on $0 in purse $$ and you schedule is based on what you can afford to spend on tires, fuel and travel and not expecting to get anything in return.

im going to reply to this and i proubly shouldnt, it has become apparent to me many on here are a Bias opinion of items on a car expessially when the emphasis of safety is on the spectators/pit personel. the drivers and owners obviously have no say ,testimony, nor experiance, as compaired to bystanders, ILL SAY IT 100 TIMES .. IM NOT TOTALLY AGAINST THE TETHERS (THE THEORY) THE PRODUCT ISSUED HAS FAULTS EASILY PRESENT BEFORE BECOMING AVAL.. IFf i were to crack a helmet I have a second one (spare ) old one in my trailer. most sprint drivers do, because of logical, routine, every several years, the item is updated, i would proubly have spare tethers too in seventeen years of racing. BUT i have my choice of helmets to choose from, are we starting to get my point? i can spent $300 to $ 1500 if i so choose, all are within the requirements of the rules, the subject at hand is the costs of the tethers (IMO, the specifics to function also) Racing isnt a hobby one chooses to just drop, some guys maybe can, the grass roots driver cant, its a lifestyle, your life is absorbed by the competition and day in day out duties of fielding a car, its almost like being a farmer, you cant pick up and just quit one day, lets say the pice of corn has been your field of buisness for seventeen years now, youve become standard to the routine each year, a minor glich in seeding practices has been brought up, this season YOU have to change your routine. and at the costs to you.. its expected.. everyone get comfortable with thier daily routine, some changes are accepted, as racers we just choose to have more options to race within the rule requirements, if you dont understand that debate, then this conversation is over.  there is no sence in "strong arming" racers into one specific sysem, the "seats" have several styles to choose from,firesuits,gloves,helmets,neck restraints,  the "torsion stop retainers" have several approved manufactures, why not the tethers? I recieve WRG updates on the rules, im not speeking from guess, that is my case in point.

ok, you have a choice on helmets, cars,belts, torsion stops, etc., etc.. 

As of today, the ONLY manufacturer to PRESENT A PRODUCT to WRG or Knoxville Raceway is ButlerBuilt, so they are the only choice available because no one else has designed anything and presented it for approval (that is why there is no choice, no one else sees the profit $$$'s in it is my guess).

Once another manufacturer presents a product it will more than likely be approved as well (like the torsion stops for example, multiple companies submitted products and they were approved for use).

Maybe the other companies don't think they can make any $$$ on the tethers so they aren't pursueing them.  Or, maybe their design presented some hazards when they started testing and they went back to the drawing board to redesign before presenting it (only they know for sure).

It's no different than hundreds of other products that are used in everyday life, it doesn't take that long before other companies have a product to compete against it (smartphones are a great example, the Blackberry was the first (and most popular at the time) until competition came along in the form of the Iphone and now Samsung is the big player (although Iphone is still right there) and Blackberry is considered a dinosaur and irrelevant.

If you have a better design, put it on paper and work with a manufacturer to get it on the market.  If the company thinks it's a better design and they can make $$$ on it, they'll pursue it.  If they think it won't work or the cost models don't make sense they won't pursue it (that's how business works).

these tethers are simple to produce, if there isnt any avalibility of the product, dont mandate it, its been overheated too quickley,  its that simple,  the release of the product hasnt even hit mainstream yet, if i dont see it in a JR,Speedway,Maxim,JnJ  ect cataloge why am I sworn to purchase it,  just a couple years ago Goodyear was under fire for the dilinquency in supplying tires, they were proubly on thier way out the door anyway, we heard thro the grapevine the lack of tires could be a problem, guess what,.. rumor was fact,  Im not a racer trying to pursue a buisness in racing, im a driver,owner ,and head wrench on my car, ive spent a "couple" hours around it spinning bolts.  telling racers thier out of line for highlighting inadiqicies of a product is like telling your Doctor he is wrong about dicifering a catscan.. if your so smart, dont go to a Dr... fix yourself.   Its NOT the racers job to supply protection for the fans, racers are the show,  could it possibly be the PROMOTORS or track owners job to supply safety to his guests? afteral are you going to file lawsuit with me or the invididual who owns the car that struck a fan? lets be honest here, who on the premisis has the insurance for that type tragidy? who? the promotor you say? the grounds owners? say it isnt so?.. the tethers on a stockcar and a Indy/ F1 car attach to the spindle location, the suspension breaks the hub -wheel- spindle is 80% sure to remain with the car, these have been used for years now, A Nascar/Daytona wreck was just last year, debris still ended up in the stands, and it was a tire, now what.. is there a answer for that too. Daytona has thee largest safety fence I have seen, unfortunately trouble will happen, kids take gloves to baseball games for a reason, (i know, its apples to oranges) but the trouble for incident is the same pricipal, no to sit back and not do anything about it isnt correct, BUT answer me this question, how many axle tethers did you see on a sprintcar last season? what was the testing duration of the "new" wave of the safety future in sprintcar racing, wouldnt you agree, large venues such as the Nationals,Pa speedweek,Indiana speedweek,Eldora, would be great places to introduce and get the buzz flowing about the new concept of tethers? Cmon, were all adults here, why start throwing the safety book at the rules and add items that are in begining stages of development. im thro with this subject,  my opinions still hold the same. I understand many of your debates, I thank you for your insight,  quite honestly  ill have to buy a set, just to race,     It would be a good idea tho, if your concerned about your safety, not to ask me about them..

The issue with the tethers is the concern over driver safety; i.e., the tethers can actually sling the front end and attached components back into the driver's compartment during a crash.  There is a team of experts working on a logical system......if it's going to be mandatory, it better be safe for everyone.

thankyou! 

maybe, ancor three positions? as we discussed this topic a few months ago I was blasted out of the water because my concern with the items possibly entering the cockpit, but, thats not the bystanders concern. truth is, wheels become seperated from the car, (any corner) Nate Mosers front end, (chassis front end) torsion tubes,arms ect,  was in the dingus parking lot.. the axle isnt the only piece capable of coming off these cars,  you can reduce the risks, but why create another. AND not at the discression of the one sitting in harms most "high risk likely"  way..

Vande knows it all........oh C&R also has an "approved" system. But there is no info or price out there that anyone knows. Tell us about that system vande.   $40,000 in a motor? Hell we don't have that in all three of ours put together! Get our own system drawn up and approved? Pay me for the time and I might. You are the prime example of a Monday morning arm chair race car owner.

Type away. It's hard to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

PS. Tethers are a safety item? For who? Where is the proof and where were these tested? We moved our axle around by hand and it can definately hit our driver when it's flying around straped by one end. I don't really think that's a safety item? Do you Vande?

easily, a 50" front axle sheered at the point of tether attachment (afterall the wall thickness increased there buy desighn) is approximatly 32" with a 45" tie rod attached, the 24" (lagging) tether puts a wheel potentially on your hood or face, and the tierod end capable of touching your rear bumper furthest most location (push upright),, well behind the car.  id say that is a problem worthy of reconsideration, besides you payed $200 to risk a moly tube hitting you, or stabbing you in your lungs,throat,neck, arm you name it....  Hopefully, some will start to understand this isnt black and white, alot a gray areas present here.

to whom it may concern, I choose to "hide" behind a user name, If I was Donny Schatz or Steve Kinser would my opinions make a differance?  choosing to "reply" to a thread concerning axle tethers on a plublic message board is for intrested parties to debate,agree or disagree on,Knoxville Raceway,WRG can put thier eyes on this message board the same as anyone else, truth is, when the Buzz over something is plublically responded too, more parties become involved,a phone call is just that, one call, here it can be read and reread and i dont need a pat on the back if someone starts to understand the pros or cons to a product, i dont need to repeat myself, one post goes a long ways,   if you think i am going to take on the powers that be soley on my own, and relay the punishment I personally go thro , your completly wrong, ive been down that road, Im totally intrested in driver safety, I gringe at the loss of drivers and incident, I hate it, It puts a difficult sell to potential fans and some of my family that choose not to go and use those facts for excuses, If I could be a voice of reason without the bloody dagger poking out my back I would..  Organizeations  havent contacted thier members (personally)about the rules/changes before,why would they now?, like im going to change a effort set in place with the funding and mandations going down the crapper..  call it a rant if you choose, i think im speeking honestly and not trying to belittle anyone or thier efforts, I AM however, speeking in testimony of a driver, and many drivers will side with me, some will not, thats ok, just hear me out,   maybe drivers arnt allowed on plublic message boards,? ive considerd not posting on here because one easily puts his neck out there to be chopped off, I will choose to continue to hide behind a keyboard so my plublic image may not be altered, heck, in reality i like to carry on without argument, ive been married for 10 years now to a young spitfire German wife.  many times she reminds me how stupid racing is, AND how dum it is to come on a plublic forum and hash out real problems with fans,drivers,owners, what have you,   I have sponsors,family freinds that I choose not to take with my opinions,simply becasue im not speeking on thier behalf, Im a individual mind a beating heart,   if you know me personally i would debate/discuss my opinions with you most certainly,Im 90% sure we would share a laugh, and enjoy the racing the same..  but, im just little ole me, in little ole nowhere USA.. Im not a name you would recognize very few on here would, Hopefully some members on here find it intresting a racer WILL voice his concerns on here, its a ballzie thing to do,  when I choose to hang up my wheel, then and maybe then i will tell you who I am..     Kindly, enjoy the season,   Dirtdevil

step back in time and put on crome molly radius rods and steel heims. will the teather cure the hub and wheel from flying away?

New ASCS motors run from $40,000 to $45,000 new.  If you do not believe me call Parker, Ostrich, Shaver, Gearte up.  I heard from a person that bought  a new engine last year at $42,000.  If you have 3 engines for less than that fine.  Sure, you can buy those engines used in 3 years for $18,000 each

Ironically Krietz advertises such product, (a kit so to speek) im sure others too,  thier idea is to utilize the steel-moly rod on the LH side of the car, with the use of the steel rod a driver incidentally clipping inside track tires and fences allows the rod to have a (stockcar , doorcar, type) "plow idea (laughing) just start running into stuff, it'll be fine"..  but really,  the idea is to save the LH side of the axle from breaking free completly, beings there isnt a upper rod to set caster with on the LH side, obviously when a driver looses the LH radius rod- and or aluminum hiem,  the steering is pretty much a crapshoot to control, "if" your still on the ground, WoO does require steel hiems on pitman rod and tierod, as well as the pitman safety strap,(someone can chime in here  I forget the drivers name they called this strap, kinda before my time-driving -that is), i try to use moly steering rods, and only keep my aluminum ones for spares, but, they all do have moly-or  mild steel hiems,  twodotteck. you bring up valid points.. proubly not going to be a favorite idea for the weight contious cars-owners-teams, but sometimes something as simple as what we did yesterday can highlight some ideas, I would agree 100% the use of moly vs aluminum would help contain a axle , but, would it contain a wheel-hub-? your exactly correct, some of the hubs used today are nervously tiny, with only three spokes-cutaway rings for the rim to seat on, thier paperlight, and dont survive much abuse, even with my preferance to choke the spindle area steering may be compromized on the LH side, the sling would have to be under the axle to avoid the steering, even in a fool proof fassion , the items will still become flying objects,  trying to decrease that possibility is the reality at hand.. i hope they come up with something  different, and can outthink myself, with everyone in mind, I will convincingly purchase that product..

and whats your point? if Al,Lee,Kelly,Bob,Ron,or Joe wish to charge $86,345.98, for a dual point 283  does that make a differance?  I dont Know about tenter, but I speek frequently with these guys, (Engine builders) pretty sure Tenter does too, I dont know too many Sprint drivers that dont speek to engine builders, Im pretty sure Tenter has written a check for some components/or motors AND has a pretty good dam idea what the motor sitting in staging next to him is worth,   Tenter could be in a 305? i dunno? he did say the $200 extra cost frustrates him, Im just speculating he is a Iron blocked car? , we dont know the specifics, If Tenter can race on three motors that are fresh or tierd, thats within his budget, so be it..

dirtdevil, all I'm saying is that your voice is more likely to be heard if it has a name and identity attached to it.  It's doesn't matter if you're Donny Schatz or Joe Fan.  I'll guarantee it's the annonymous drivel that consumes 99% of this board that keeps the folks from Knoxville, WoO, etc away from here.  It's a waste of their time and resources.  You have some valid points.  Give those folks a call and voice your concerns...they will listen.  They won't read it here.

Todd

i had said on the knoxville message about tethers to make a x type system. middle to each side in a x pattern. this should keep the axle from going anywhere, no matter where it breaks. i do not see that a single tether system should cost 200 bucks. but that is business. a x system would be a better design.

I had mentioned this earlier.  Two more tethers going to opposite sides should help keep half an axle from swinging around so much.  That would be much safer for the driver.

Hoffman, I appologize, I quickley grew to the observation your intrests were in my idenity and not for the good of the tethers function, I reread your mail, and tried to understand your messaging, hopefully,   purely for the good of everyone involved, I do expect minor glitches to be present when trying to solve a potential safety problem, the wolfie valve is something i havent heard of in 15-20 years, its exhistance in sprint racing today is pretty much nill, why? im not sure, its a valid product, but several case senerios need to be present for its function to resolve a threat, im sure the price is one large factor also, AND its avalibility..  I will try contact . the powers that be and try to have a usefull discussion about the developement of (lets say) "phase two" of the tether, im afraid im a day late and a dollar short (pardon the pun) in todays(aka April) mandation, maybe not,? ither way i think the troubles with the tether will arise immediatly IMO, hopefull not at the cost of one of my competitors, injury ect, but the voices of the drivers will start to mingle, the observations of the unit wil start to buzz. soon drivers will speek, in honesty. and concern i thought about this yesterday, i should talk to my fellow drivers on thier insight of the product, many of them will just buy the product and install it in place without thought,  maybe im the only one tha thas thought alot about this item, many drivers dont, they are intrested in competition, how to get faster, what they need to make them win,  i can scream at the top of my lungs for change, we all can, untill tragidy strikes nobody listens, truthfully, and sadly,  the awareness and resolutions start to kick in,  Earnhart had no buisness prepareing himself for raceday like he did, products were avalible, he choose to suit his comfort,thats fine, its his life,  the chance he was willing to take was his,, NOW head/neck restaints are almost second nature. they went thro a grey period as well, thier much better than they were when they first came out, the old ones are heavy, bulky, limited mobility and flinstoneish with that noted, its another piece of safety equipment that is expensive, AND has flaws, getting in and out of these cars can be hard, a driver will outweight the risks and make a well thought decision, I can go on forever.. not because im just a wind blower, but, because i see the potential problems and identify them first hand, regardless,  ya All have a good season, my regards..