Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I know what the winning car's power plant cost. Do you know that the third place car had a $7000 motor and came from the BACK to get third? Had he started farther up, who knows what might have happened?

The entire premise this series is built on is that you do NOT need a $20,000 motor to win. It's been proven numerous times over this last season at Eagle Raceway.

Nobody can stop people who want to try and buy wins, but it's not necessary; and that is the whole point!!

I am lucky enough to work at one of the best tracks 
anywhere.

I have to disagree with you here Eagle Pit Shack Guy.....

The whole Racesaver deal is still fresh in NE.  In area's where it's been going on for a while, people have started finding tricks in these motors.  Tricks add to cost.  Yeah, when this deal first started the $7,000 motors were just fine.  Not anymore...the reason your $7,000 motor guy came from the back and ran 3rd was because he was just plain better at that track, on that night, than the rest of the cars.  You'll get that from time to time, in any class, at any track but night in and night out, the better motors finish the best.  We've been doing this deal here in Texas for 7,8,9 years something like that now.  The guys who are still convinved that the $7,000 motors run just as good as the $20,000 motors run with the SST and typcially won't even show up at KSP or Devils Bowl for a weekly show.  When they do....they don't stand a chance.  There are a few exceptions....on certain nights when they have everything lined up and going perfect for them but night in and night out....they're out to lunch.

I just cannot see the affordability in this deal either.....I can race my 360 motor for triple the payout of the 305 and afford that on a weekly basis much better.  I just cannot understand the whole racing for $500 to win, $100 to start when I can run my 360 for $2,000 to win and $300 to start.  Pit passes cost the same, tires cost the same, we may use an extra 5 gallons of methanol for the 360 ($15).  It just doesn't make sense.  I have $13,500 in my 305 (and my motor builder sponsors me with discounted and on some things free labor) and only paid $10,500 to buy my old 360 motor back.  Now, I understand that it's unusual to only have $10,500 in a 360 but even if I had $27,000 in it, I would still be racing for more than twice the payout if I ran the 360 instead of the 305.  With what I have invested in my 305, I would have to win 27 A Mains to recover my expense.  If I had $27,000 in my 360, I would only have to win 13.5 A Mains.  Maybe I look at things too much from a business perspective in regards to return on investment and things but that's just what makes sense to me.  I think if you don't win enough to leave the track ahead (if you win the feature), you shouldn't be doing it......just my thoughts.

No offense to whoever is the officiating people down there, but are they actually completely teching? No series can be successful unless EVERYTHING is completely and utterly policed.

I'm willing to have my viewpoint changed, but as of right now, it hasn't happened.

I am lucky enough to work at one of the best tracks 
anywhere.

There will never be a national sprint car sanction with a primary purpose of saving $$$, assuming that is what you refer to with "take over the country".

No, Mr. Alderman. What I meant was running coast to coast. And, as I said before, just wait for it.

However; run and policed properly, it CAN be a cost-saving series.

I am lucky enough to work at one of the best tracks 
anywhere.

Eagle guy, you are very correct policed is the key. The SST group had it right with the way it should be ran. A lot of people will disagree. dt3 right rear, med left rear. They recently changed that here and it's raising the cost. Teched properly it can help keep cost down. At the big show they tore the asi down, French grimes did and it was legal. With 50 hp more on the dyno legal what do you do? I give it to you a couple of y'all's fast cars did not finish so we will never know. But I'm sure the winner has never seen the track before. Racesaver should go coast to coast. I wish everywhere ran them. When it came to buying a 24,000 305 I bought a brand new 410 from shaver for 20,000. I don't know why we don't see more of these Motors. 

Let's see who/what wins next August when the 15th Annual IMCA Racesaver Supernationals takes place on the high banks of Eagle Raceway.

And, you can rest assured that each and every engine WILL be completely teched before AND after the racing takes place.

I am lucky enough to work at one of the best tracks 
anywhere.

I'll be there. It's a good deal y'all have going. And don't get me wrong I am glad to see a great track step up and do it right. Paying 1,000 to start and not making it so top heavy.  The show should have 100 cars or more. 

CBGarage, I thought the exact same thing. The problem is everybody thinks the 305's will all have $7,000 motors and that all 360's have $18,000 to $30,000 motors. The reality is, most of the top 305's have an engine that costs more than your average 360 competitor. Just like the top 360's have an engine that costs more than your average 410 competitor.

I guess I will hold out for the "Worldsaver 289" class.

The economics of this 305 nonsense are a scam. Everything costs the same as the 360 from pit passes to tires to fuel and for 1/4 the return. Spend $10k on a 305 to win and still go in the hole. Yeah that makes perfect sense....

not to mention they are slow as shit... I'd rather watch flies buzz a turd than watch what amounts to a profit margin for promoters  

305's are the herpes of sprint cars

Au contraire, mon frere! 1 second a lap difference under similar track conditions at Eagle Raceway. Not you or anyone else can honestly say the can see that small dissimilarity.

I am lucky enough to work at one of the best tracks 
anywhere.

Eagle Pit Guy, you are actually supporting why the 305's are not a good idea. The last thing we need in sprints cars is another division to further deplete the car counts. By you saying there is not much difference is the exact reason they do not make sense. The only reason that the class is doing well at Eagle is because you guys dropped the 360's and those racers HAD to switch in order to still race. I doubt any of them are saving big money racing the 305's vs. the 360's. However, the promoter is happy because he can pay a smaller purse for the same amount of cars.

I can not for the life of me understand how a $20,000 race ready 305 is more economical to run than a $20,000 race ready 360. You have all the same costs but the 305's have a lower purse.

I guess this is new math that I am not privy too!!!!! This is the same mentality our government works under and look where that has gotten us!!!

TOO MUCH NEGATIVITY! The Racesaver 305 sprintcars will survive & prosper. If you do not like them, please stay away from their races.

I hope you can come and watch before you pass judgement.

I have seen them many times and they are a decent support class. Better than sitting through modifieds but not nearly fast enough for me to consider them a real sprint car... More like a beginner type class.

305's are the herpes of sprint cars

Hopefully they wont  because people wont pay money to see no nmae drivers because just attend a Woo Race and see what i mean by the grandstand full; most of the time pits are full except when they are in canada or area of country where they dont run 410s; people go to see the woo because of their drivers !

Long Live  20 Time  World Of Outlaws Champion Steve 
Kinser #11 

No new math to be had. The reason that Eagle Raceway switched to the 305's was due to constantly falling numbers of the 360's competing at Eagle. But this year we had full fields every week, as opposed to 15 total cars some weeks the year before.

And there were only a very small number of the 360 drivers that switched. The change did bring in quite a few NEW sprint teams, with more to come next season. Teams that never would have been able to race a 360.

And, I would like you to explain to me exactly now the promoter is SAVING money when he is paying EXACTLY THE SAME PURSE AS HE DID FOR THE 360'S! It is structured differently, but it is still the same total purse; a higher amount actually because there are more cars.

I believe that Roger sold more than a couple of cars for far less than what you quoted. COMPLETE CARS! Not just motors! And, has been covered over and over, a competitive motor can be had for around $7000, not the $20,000 that you and others keep throwing around.

I am lucky enough to work at one of the best tracks 
anywhere.

Scam perpetrated by promoters to fool novice sprint car fans into thinking they are seeing real sprint cars. Which is a good thing in one regard... It at least exposes possible new fans to what a sprint car looks like and then maybe peaks their curiosity to go see real sprint cars else where

305's are the herpes of sprint cars

When the 305 class was dreamed up,they missed the boat big time.They should have went the other direction with big cubic inches,say 400 or more,if they had this could have been a great class that just may have ran the 360's out of business and gave the racers an affordable class with motors that would actually run.If you made a 400 with rules similar to the 305's,you could have motors that make good hp and torque that wouldn't cost anymore than a 305. Flat topped pistons,cam limit,and a reasonable priced head such as Dart iron eagles on a 400 would be a great class and much more fun to watch and drive than the under powered 305's.

Racesavers should be a fun economical class.The problem with all motorsports is you cant keep people with money from spending it.Look at the first KnoxVille 360 s[2barrel carbs,steel wheels etc.] and look at them now.The racers themselves voted to change them to cost more saying they could buy used injection and alum wheels cheaper.When we started racing gokarts with B/S motors we won lots of races with a $55 motor [30yrs ago] now the same class has $1500 motors.I wish Tony the best and no matter how hard people try racing is not cheap.I still say if there were more people like Gil Sonner,Leonard McCarl,BobTrostle that actually could build a car&engine themselves and be competitive racing would be cheaper and just as good.Many people are making a living selling top motors,equiptment and cars to people who love to race but in reality cant afford it.

One things that's missing from this thread is a discussion of track configuration. Everyone knows Knoxville's half mile loves high horsepower, high revving engings. Many 305, 360 and 410 competitors there spend ridiculous amounts of money on their engines. I'll bet a 50 horsepower difference in a 305 motor there would be very obvious on the track. That same 50 horsepower might not be as obvious at Eagle's third mile. (I'm not knocking Eagle. I've never been there and would like to go sometime.)

As a lifelong sprint car fan, I love the idea of getting new teams into the sport; regardless of engine size. Some will pack it in after awhile because they can't afford it or can't succeed. But the rest will be hooked and stay around a long time. That's what we need to encourage. If that means they start in the 305 class with a $7K motor, so be it.

I expect most (if not all) sprint care teams lose money. The question is how much they can afford to lose. The bigger the motor the more the loss. Purses can't cover the weekly expense of keeping the pin in these grenades. They're gonna blow or need refreshed. The bigger the horsepower, the more you're gonna spend to keep them fresh.

I will be watching the Iowa State Fairgrounds track in 2014 to see how the new Racesaver 305 class does. If it succeeds, I'll bet we'll see some of those teams move up to the 360 or 410 divisions at Knoxville within a few years. And what's wrong with that? Maybe the Iowa State Fairgounds tracks could even have a 360 division (again) someday.