Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

If you were going to start over w/ sprint car racing and design it for a mass audience, take it out of its niche base, what would you do?

Many tracks have work days, and I have never understood why.   I want you to run the track as a business.   I want you to make money off of the track.   I want you to charge my a fair price and offer good entertainment.   You are not doing this for charity, nor do I expect you to.   Thus, you should not expect charity from me and have me work on the facilites for free.  

I have never worked a day in the supermarket where I buy my food, nor have I been asked to.

Okay, so you don't have to volunteer.  Maybe there are others who would be happy to help.  Just saying!

 
I LEARNED ESP FROM MY MOM

"PUT YOUR SWEATER ON: DON'T YOU THINK I KNOW WHEN 
YOU'RE COLD?"

Insurance and Lawyers would be the main reason to not have a work day for the tracks (you aren't covered by their insurance if you get hurt, if you do get hurt, you can sue them for everything they've got).

Now on the original subject.

Die hard fans can be a little of both.  They are a GREAT asset when they bring new people, explain formats to newbies, and are accomodating to new fans and welcome them in the stands.

They can be detriments when they sit around those same people and complain about formats, "percieved" favortism toward a driver, complain about long breaks, and my all time pet-peeve:  cheer when someone they dislike crashes (happened in my section this year).

I've been fortunate enough to sit by die-hard fans that are great assets to the sport, and I've been unfortunate enough to sit by one that openly screamed and yelled that he wanted a certain driver to crash and go out of the park and end up on Highway 14 or on HyVee's parking lot (needless to say, the newbies sitting around us were never seen again the remainder of the season)....

Earlier someone mentioned the bigger fuel cells that were used in the past.  In reality that really isn't so.  The actual cells were about the same size but were covered with a bigger fiberglass tail for appearance.  And the cars did have much nicer lines then I would say.  Don't believe it, look back at some old pictures of when guys like Ferkel started taking the tail off to save weight, check the size of the cell.

So, why could we run 50 and 100 lap races then without fuel stops ?  Two big reasons.

1.  Much smaller engines and injectors.  When I first went to the Williams Grove nationals in the very early '70s, they were running 312 cubic inches.  Compare that with today's 410.

2.  In most of the longer races, caution laps counted up to the last 10 which had to run green.  Listen to a drivers meeting some night and see how many laps they announce they are going to go before a fuel stop.  Most of the ones I have heard are right arounf 75.  That includes pace laps, cautions, actual race laps.

Personally. I miss the longer races.  150 laps for the Grove Nationals when I started going.  What a spectacle it was.

Just my thoughts.

"Diehard fans: Detriment or Asset" is a bad way to phrase it. Diehards keep the sport alive. "Should diehards be more open to change" might be better.

I'm a relative newcomer, 3 1/2 years going to races (but I knew about it since the 60s) I can see fuel stops take away some of the"sprint" aspect, but then again if Finals hadn't been 50, I wouldn't have seen Schatz win from 21st, which was the coolest thing I've seen yet

I think this question almost needs to be broken down past the "die hard" fan part. I believe the problem is more of a good fan, bad fan kinda thing.  For the most part i believe the die hard fans are good fans ( remember i said most) . For the most part I believe that die hard fans like myself are just happy to see sprints on the track regardless of the format (good fans) . The problem as i see it is the short term fans that hate this driver or that driver. Fans that think it was a bad night of racing if their driver didnt win .  Those fans were  only really there for the party . Either way there is a good fan and a bad fan on each side of it. The bad fans are the detriment to our sport.

The bad fan in my section is over 60 and "claims" to have come to the races since he was kid.....

Without the die-hards (good and bad ones), the sport cannot survive currently.  the main problem I see is that we need to cultivate "new" fans and some of the "die-hards" make that extermely hard to do.

I personally can't wait for the 2014 racing season as things appear to be on the upswing in my area of the country (wish I could say the same for PA, from teh sounds of things, promotors are very worried about car counts in 2014).

I do like the 50 laps (or 40) for the big races. Would prefer they be without a fuel stop but I would  never stop going because they have a fuel stop. I think sprints on a well prepped dirt track is the most exciting thing there is in the world of sports.

How to increase the fan base? Improve the facilities. I took a lady freind to a track I had never been to myself. She needed to use the restroom buy it was so disgusting looking that she was afraid to go in. Advertise, have car shows at area malls, give away tickets on radio stations, etc. Most of us "die hards" bring new people with us whenever we can. Some become regulars, some part timers and a few don't like it and do not go again. You have to get them to the track before you can make them fans! The on track product is good enough to sell its self once you get people there to see it.

And take them to the pits to meet some drivers. Racing is better when its more than just cars going around. I took a freinds 7 yr old boy to the pits after the races last year and he just lit up when I introduced him to the Dude and Danny made a fuss over him and talked to him. Same with Brian Brown.

So to answer the question, no die hards are not a detriment to the sport. They have probably done more to help the sport and grow the fan base than some promoters have. New fans are good too. But if they need a lot of changes made to like it then maybe you need to weigh how many new fans the changes will bring vs how many old fans they will lose. I know a lot of people who would go to MLB games if they had a pitch clock and other changes to speed up the game but does that mean MLB should do that to draw a few new fans at the expense of long time fans? 

You know nothing about SILVER CROWN.  They were not a little club that tried longer races.  Silver crown also known as big cars has been around for years and years .  They had like 50 cars at times that qualified for 20 starting spots.  All the great drivers drove them, AJ Foyt, Branson, Snider, Andretti on and on.  The little club was AAA also known as USAC today.  They raced from coast to coast.  They were built to race 100 laps on a 1 mile dirt track non stop in most cases.  Problem today all the big 1 mile tracks are gone and shopping centers and houses rest in thier place.  I think there are about 4-5 1 mile dirt tracks left.  There are probably 30-40 Silver Crown cars that could be ready to go and they do race about 4-6 times a year.

I don't pay that close of attention to what other people are doing or how they approach the sport.  I've got my hands full just keeping track of me....

Stan Meissner

Ummmm, I'm 62 and have been going to the races since I was a kid but you can rest assured that I'll be down in the infield with my camera and won't be boring any of the younger fans with stories about the good old days. 

You can't put every long time fan of racing into a little box.  People are all different.  Like I tell anyone who will listen, there's a fine line between historian and dinosaur.  I guess too many people in my age group are afraid to change with the times.  One thing I will admit is how much drivers have changed since I started going to the races.  Back in the late 50s and early 60s a lot of them were war veterans sporting crew cuts and fighting their way to the pay window.  Now I'm seeing kids that aren't even old enough to drive on the street in race cars.  I'm not saying that's a bad thing because some of them have turned out to be very good drivers.  It's just that it's kinda hard to wrap my head around looking up to a 15 year old as a hero. 

Stan Meissner

Stan, I'll never forget asking 1 old guy that raced sprints back when they did not have cages how he could do that. Racing without a cage was so dangerous. He told me before he started racing he had been flying combat missions over Germany and compared to that racing a sprint car without a cage did not seem dangerous at all!

That is an awesome question.  I personally like a points system that gives points for qualifying--so everyone gives it all on every lap and can't try to hit the invert.  Then, complete inverts for the heats--front to back.  Then, passing points combined with qualifying points to set the mains.  You can win the heat and not make the A-main if you qualify crappy and don't pass any cars.  Setting the A-main would be with an invert draw and a dash.  Draw for an invert of 4, 6, 8, 10 or 12 cars--run the dash.  I know the car owners and drivers don't like the double file start, but new fans to the sport love them--and i do too.  Finally, there would be a twin feature--I know this is where the controversy starts (or continues).  I would run a 25 lap A-main, part 1.  Cars return to the pits.  Then run the support class feature.  Then line the cars back up for the 25 lap A-main, part 2. 

That is my perfect night at the track.  I don't have to have that to love a night of racing but this is what i would love to see.  And this is what my track (the one i would purchase) would do if I won the lottery.  

The rest of you make good points--now that everyone understands what my point was, you all know where i am coming from when i say there are many out there that will doom this sport if they have their way.  They are not interested in growth--just keeping things the same with no open mind.  Some really grumpy fans in the stands when they don't get it their way sometimes.  That doesn't help the overall vibe in the stands and at the races.

Die hard says take the wing off? your out to lunch... my definition of a sprint car is a purposely built race car to go around a dirt tack as fast as possible... does that imply a wing?.. Also seen Damion load it up one night after a wing race at stoga and go non wing racing.... I remember him as a winged driver trying to make it... anyhow.....USAC lol dang they still hate WoO?........... If you think the KWS is special now, i got a bridge to sell you lol

This guy says complete inverts for the heats.... Really... Guess you were not around back in the day... Cuase that is repeating history... every race as inverted.... even weekly shows.... ask somone why that didnt last.... remember when losaski won the most heat races in a year, and that wasnt a good thing.... thats what kept him on the porch...

Winning the heat won't do you any good--if you didn't pass any cars.  Means you were slow in qualifying.   I have seen this formant before in Late models with passing points.  I like it much better than aiming for an invert on the qualifying lap.  But hey, my opinion. 

Yeah, yeah, yeah, blah blah blah, I know, Silver Crown was an extension of the Old Indy Uprights or Champ Cars that lost their place at Indy and in the champioship car circuit. That "club" which started in the early '70's and was a USAC deal is all but exticnt because the racing is frankly boring.  ESPN and Speed used to air Silver Crown races where they were hurting for camera angles because there were no spectators. Then came the change in the asphalt format where they put pods on the sides of the cars and were used to help move Nascar drivers along in their career.  Some of the Champ car owners made an effort to keep the deal alive on the dirt.  Some of the Wednesday and Thursday night televised programs had no one in the stands. Then they dropped that format and made an effort to bring back the champ cars.

How often do you hear about a good Silver Crown race any more linbob? I don't know anything about Silver Crown racing, I just know 2 owners and one chassis builder, that is all.

It was used to make a point, sorry that you were too dense to get that. Don't get your undies in a bunch.

(Is this more satisfactory for you Bigfish?)  It still rings true, even if you change the name! 

Never hit stationary objects!

I'd welcome stories (my 10 year old would love them).  Hard to explain to him why someone WISHES and OPENLY ROOTS that a driver get hurt or killed though....

I have contributed some articles to Flat Out and several local publications but it's all current stuff.  I kind of buck the trend for someone in their 60's.  For example, just had a computer bite the dust so I rebuilt a box someone gave me and switched to the Linux operating system.  I play rock guitar, not 60's rock but hard rock.  As a matter of fact the lead singer in this band lives with my daughter and they stayed with us for a couple years.  They style of music I play is closer to these guys than anything from my generation.  www.reverbnation.com/viarockviaroll   Most folks my age would balk at the computer and music stuff that I do.  Hell, I wish I was 40 years younger so I could enjoy doing this stuff a helluva lot longer.

Anyways, my point is that I'll keep on chasing the races as long as possible and when I'm no longer able to waddle down to the infield I'll sit home and worry about the history.  Until then I'm quite content to follow todays racing.  Not that I'm oblivious to the past, I watched Jerry Richert Sr., Scratch Daniels, Barry Kettering, Buzz Barton and other HOF caliber drivers when I was a kid and appreciate what they did and will always cherish the memory of being able to watch them.  But most of those names mean little or nothing to young fans today and we glamorize the old days but by my way of thinking there are a lot of things about today's racing that are better.  Like I said, there's a fine line between historian and dinosaur. 

Stan Meissner