Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Glad to hear sprints will return to the Fairgrounds, used to love going there as a youngster and watching my uncle battle the likes of Danny Young and others. I can tell you the Racesaver sprints down here in DFW have taken off and provide a great race at good speeds, a 1/2 miler may be a bit much for that motor, but definently don't knock it, just because it's "imca racin", also, a lot of the guys that run up front down here aren't the ones pulling in with semis...

And for all you purest, I watched a wingless racesaver show last night, minus the "young money syndrome" that's leads to cautions weeding out the not so talented without a wing crowd, it was a blast of a race and which they'd run them more without a wing

Matt 

That leaves one ??? Where to run d.m. or race knoxville jackson Mn. & burlington & midwest 305s the latter run same motor. Will the guys that run going to run knoxville to i' ve been told that they will not last long before they break on a big track. So where you want to run. Hers a better idea run a clamer motor say $$6.000 thats why you got ump mods & imca mods around this area.also you knoxville will cut there track down to 3/8 which is great for racesaver motors. Now if you get three tracks where you can run 3-4 nights a week might be different story.

Claim rules don't work.  305's are mostly a beginers/hobby class. I doubt too many of them want to race 3 times a week.

Wish Tony the best on promoting ISF.The shorter the track the better the racing and also cheaper to compete .The 305s are a great class but would be better with one set of rules and The RaceSaver is the best for cost but Knoxville has let the racers spend more than they need to for a starter class.If you can spend $20K for a support class motor to race for $400 you need to move up.Racers that make the rules always want to spend more and still will get same purse.The top class no matter it be latemodels,410 sprints,or traveling modified will always get the most purse as they are what most people come to see.I am sure Tony will stick to one set of rules and let the bigger budget teams set or get a Racesaver motor.IMCA sprints just never took off in Ia .

 I already think people are cheating....

A guy would be a freeking idiot to spend $20,000 on any 305.  You do not need brand new injection.  A used Hilborn is just fine.  A used magneto is just fine.  Of course these should be checked before use, but Art Moose in DesMoines can check mag..  Kustom sprintcar Parts in Newton sells alot of used and new parts.  These cars put out about 475 HP I think, you do not need hi tech crank, rods, and pistons.  You could get all 3 of these for about $1000.00 if you wanted to.  Your block and Racesaver heads will cost you the most at about $1,500 each.  Can get 305 camshaft , oil pump and pan at Speedway for not much.  If you or a friend know things about building motors, do it your self.  Just use common sense and get all clearences right.  To pay some one $100.00 an hour to build you a motor is crazy.  You can get books at Speedway motors on how to build SBC engines

You are correct, but read 305 Racesaver rule book.  You can build your own engine and have it checked just like any engine builder.

linbob....you're correct, to a degree. Yes, you can buy "good/used" injectors and mag, sure. You can buy an off the shelf cam and lifters from several outlets, and rotating assembly from Eagle or Scat or whomever....and yes, you can buy a book from Speedway Motors to tell you how to put it all together, but let me ask you a question.........

If I found a deal on some expired milk and eggs, and borrowed some sugar, and found a cake mix, and someone TOLD me how to turn the oven on, does that make me Betty Crocker? In the words of Uncle Si....., "Naaah"

If you're going to run a local track on Saturday night for fun, sure you can get by with a homebuilt motor in most cases, but even then you've got some that are willing to spend the money for the best that technology has to offer. You better bet, if you start trying to go into some of these established RaceSaver territories, and tug on the local "Super Man" cape, you better have more than a sling shot in your holster.  

You guys can argue this out all you want, but all the naysayers said it wouldn't work at Eagle,  after the first season, here are the facts:......he track record was only 1.4 seconds off the existing ASCS 360 track record......over 50 cars attended both nights for the IMCA Racesaver Supernationals with  $5500 Roger built long blocks, that had been run all season, finishing second and third (from 19th after the lap one restart) and well within' striking distance of Kyle McCutcheon's "20,000 ?" engine (not to mention the fact they won 7-8 of the weekly shows also........the average weekly car count was over 20, even at the end of the year  ........this being a "start-up" class, a new crop of drivers became involved in the sprint class (from 2-3 raw rookies, to those moving from mini-sprints, hobby stock, modifieds, and late model, as well as veterans that built Racesaver engines to race weekly (and still raced NE360  and ASCS 360 shows time permitting)...... alot of ex-360 engined rollers were able to be sold ......more cars finished on the lead lap at the end of features than ever before........ over 12-15 more "new" teams already planning to join the existing cars in 2014.........Good luck to Tony and the Fairgrounds, it may take some time, but it WILL work, and it definitely could be the start of something to build on.........Sprint car racing, both of the Racesaver305 and 360 variety, is alive and well in Nebraska..................can't wait til' next season...........SC

Thats how knoxville 305 started out great at the beging now look more less one guy dominate $$$$ to win say t- mac built one a ran.  Takes money to win if your not in it to win  buy a go kart to play with . How much has the price of running a imca mod went up in the last 10 years . I think 305 with ascs heads. There guys that dont run 360 beacuse of cost maybe they'll build a 305.??

the excitement is growing around iowa also..dennistone and bloomfield have been mentioned as being interested... only rumors but who knows..

Well if you can drive and have a good motor then yes you can dominate then. I'm talking guys coming in and out spending the small guys that can't afford the good engine parts. Its true in any class money talks. In Jackson, Mn many moons ago I raced sprints there and they had a 317 Cubic inch limit on the motors and put on a heck of a show. 327  with 283 cranks, stock rods etc. You counldn't find them parts today but this was 35 yrs ago. In the 360 class at Knoxville it used to be steel headed motors and then they let them go to the aluminum heads and now the expensive valve train and lightweight rods and pistons, they always mess things up by allowing all this high fi parts. You get 15 to 20 305's and they put on a good show. I think you get the picture now.

Ahh yes the old GM 302, very difficult to find a small journal block to assemble one, with that being said, very difficult to assemble one with correct era parts!, stroke and bore combinations have come a long ways since then, any combination including rod lengths have become a intresting topic.. amazing how much better and longer they run with todays technology, BUT, it had to start somewhere.. Our engine of choice during our IMCA mortified days was the 377, actually more money to build than a 406 I liked the mid to topend pull of the motor,the final drive was relitively close to the 355 we used also.  the snappy tourque would walk anyone off the corner if the track was clear..got my first trophy dash win with one.   fun fun fun..

Oh, I understand all too well. When the 360 CI rule was started at Midwest many moons ago that was supposed to be the economical class and a way to control spending in the sprinters. Well, the racers and owners kept pushing and pushing and pushing the rules until you have what it has become today. Teams will ALWAYS want the best of the best just to keep that little bit of advantage.

I still think that the Racesaver class is a damned good thing! Driver ability will always be the most important factor, but the Racesavers have allowed a LOT of new people to get into sprints. I've talked to I don't know how many of those who raced at Eagle this year and they were like kids in a candy store. They couldn't believe how much fun they were having, and I doubt that any of them ever thought they'd get the chance to race sprints. Keeping the sport alive is what we all want, right?? We can't do that without new blood coming in, and with the new blood comes new fans.

IF, and that's a big IF, we can keep the rules the way that they are, I think we'll keep getting more racers involved. But, people are their own worst enemy, if you catch my drift.

I am lucky enough to work at one of the best tracks 
anywhere.

The 360's were introduced as a starter class....the OWNERS pushed the rules to be changed to allow better parts to be installed in the motors as the "junkyard" parts just wouldn't hold together for more than a race or two (and it actually was costing owners MORE to run those than it was to spend more $$$ up front and have a motor last an entire season.  Today, they have crossed the line and SOME teams cannot make it an entire season (weekly racing) without a rebuild at some point.

305's are just starting up, but they will go through the same transition (I can't count how many 305's lost engines this year @ Knoxville).  The owners will start putting pen to paper and start telling the tracks that they could save $$$ by allowing aluminum heads, ported heads, injection, etc., etc..  It will always be the same song and dance, different verse.

Racing is EXPENSIVE, no set of rules will EVER change that fact.  If the motors are limited, team owners will spend the $$ on new tires instead (even though they may not need them), or new wings, or new shocks or new wheels, etc., etc..

Until OWNERS start realizing that the only way to control costs is to spend less $$$, the cycle will NEVER end.  Why are any 305 teams buying BRAND NEW cars, wings, wheels?  The answer is because they want to win and run up front.  There are multitudes of 410 and 360 teams that sell USED parts at the end of every season, yet some of them can't even sell what they have on hand becuase the "lower levels" don't allow those parts and pieces in their class.

It's time to start over with sprint cars period.  Do away with the 305, 360 and 410, just have a motor rule of you can't exceed XX cubic inches, wing has to be a certain size (or less) and tires have to meet a certain durometer (and you have to run the same tires ALL NIGHT LONG. 

I remember going to Knoxville in the 80's and there would be 45-50 cars there for a weekly show.  Then they added the 360 class and the car count went to 30 ish for the 410's and 20 for the 360's (basically the same 50 cars), now they've added the 305's and with the exception of last season, the car count (overall) was virtually unchanged from when they only ran 410's and 360's.

We've fragmented the sport for no apparent reason.  You combine the purses (weekly) for Knoxville and you could have a $5000 to win $600 to start purse EVERY WEEK for 410 sprints if they only had that class.  Instead, we have $3000 to win and $350 to start for 410's, $1250 to win and $150 to start for 360's and $400 to win, ??? to start for 305's.  Next we'll have 6 cylinder sprints as another class and further splinter the sport......

I remember when Gary Lee Maier won the 360 Nationals in 1992. He said he loved the class because he could build a 360 motor for $1000 with mostly junk yard parts! Driver could run an entire season with 1 right rear tire too.

For some reason Burlington 305 do not run Knoxville, and Knoxville cars do not run Burlington.  No one from Knoxville or Burlington run Jackson.  Oh sure Knoxville  will cut its track down to 3/8 mile just for the 305 cars.  Knoxville has not seen alot of 305 motors blow up  I hope DesMoines Racesaver 305 goes over real well.  It would be nice if all 3 tracks in Iowa had same rules.

If Gary told you this in 1992 he was kidding.  You could not build a 360 motor with junk yard parts for $1000 

He said it in Open Wheel magazine in a story on  the 360 class at Knoxville. He actually said with a lot of junk yard parts. Not ALL junk yard stuff. Sorry for the mis quote. Dwight Snodgrass was quoted as saying they used only 2 rt rears all season and that was because the first one got cut.