Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Something no one has mentioned is that Donnie's problem happened at the start of hotlaps not after several laps of racing.  The stop hadn't had time to work itself off like it seems the others may have.  Does anyone know if it was completly off or still attached?  If off did they found it laying on the track and what condition was it in?  I'm sure the crew at least looked at it during routine maintenance from the night before.  For it to come off that quick it almost seems like it would have had to either break, strip out or be loose. 

I was at Castrol on the weekend taking photos and it was a very very scary wreck that's for sure I am glad it did not happen 10-15 feet farther around turn 4 or it would have been a solid concrete wall. As scary as that wreck is I think the wreck on Friday night involving Steve Kinser was just about as scary when he ended up going straight into the front stretch wall full throttle that completely destroyed his car. This is 1 of 14 photos and by far the worst clarity wise I got of Steves wreck which shows him going straight into the wall.

The new safety retainer unit ..is available now at Kustomsprint.com..check it out ..word is 2014 at Knoxville every car must have them ..The Knoxville KRC has supplied drivers with safery units..a great move by one of racings best ever support groups.

There is no hole in the fence, it's from the shadow of the track lights hitting the chain link that makes it look like a hole. 

We bought these at the 360 Knoxville Nationals. Very light and very effective.  I think it should be mandatory. 

This is not new, it has been going on since the first TB stops.  There are several reasons.  People make mistakes, and the  stop may not have been tightened clear up.  Alum.  TB stops do at times break, I have seen it in person.  There is some variation on how stops are made to fit.  Grease on splines can help it  come off.  Retainers are the new rule in Australia.  I think WOO is to follow for 2014.  Knoxville will require TB stop retainers and tethers on front axels.  Front axels have been coming off for years also.  Knoxville had one go over fence this year but did not hit any one.  There are other things WOO need to require.  Rock screens and full containment sets and Hans device.  The time is now to do these things.

Allstar Torsion Stop Retainer Kit part number ALL10730

According to the driver of the 15, the stop came off going down the back stretch.  It didn't break.  It came off.  His words.  According to the driver of the 15, there is no explanation why weird things like this happen.  His words.  According to him, he witnessed the crew torque the stop and they did not make a mistake.  Again - his words.

One or two stops fall off randomly, and I buy that someone left grease on the splines or failed to install it properly.  One or two stops fall off, and I buy that a stop is worn or it's an inherent design flaw.  That's not what is happening over the course of the past few months and maybe as much as a year.

I don't believe a team like the 15 is using old or subpar parts.  I don't know how it could be that, when the failure occurs at the moment it is at it's least amount of stress - going down the straightaway.  Remember, nobody involved in these incidents with the RF has said the stop failed.  They have said the stop failed to stay on the RF.  And it seems to only be happening on the RF.

I'm all for a retaining system (and the safety items you mention including rock screens).  I still want to know why the RF stop is falling off these cars when it is the least stressed stop on a winged sprintcar.  Donny is right about one thing.....something weird is going on.

His words;  I'm feeling very fortunate today to be able to celebrate my daughters sweet 16 birthday with her. The incident that happened in hot laps last night was very similar to what took Jason lefflers life from him. The right front torsion stop came off going down the back straightaway, when the car squeezes into the right side entering the corner, it digs the right side frame rail into the dirt, (like a plow) and turns it right around to the right allowing big impact into the wall with the left side of the car. It feels completely helpless when there is nothing a driver can do to avoid this situation, there are lots of drivers who have experienced it and walked away. Lucky for me I'm one of them. There really is no explanation as to why weird things like this happen, it was NOT a mistake of any crew members, as I watched the guys torque the torsion stop yesterday as they maintained the race car. Gladly we were able to continue our racing for the evening with the back-up car. What a race it was, there were 3 grooves to race in and I had to use all 3 to win the race. Thank you to the People in Edmonton, you always make it a fun event, and to my Canadian friends that I always have a great time. Thank you to the people who make the best safety equipment possible, without your hard work, today would not be possible. No matter how sore and beat-up I feel today, it's all worth it!

Thank you
Donny Schatz

The greatest knowledge is to know that you know nothing
at all.

If he knew it came off on the back stretch why not stop before this happened? Why even get on the gas? Thank god he walked away

He wanted to crash hard to see what people on Hoseheads could do to better the sport?

do it in the dirt

sadly, any sprintcar driver that has raced a noticeable amount of time has had this happen to them, luckily it would fail on the left side of the car and not the right, mine however was the right. the crew did not completly tighten a steel stop on my car, the crew tried notify the correct personel to wave me back in forfitting my starting position. the track officials did not radio to my earpiece that my crew was calling me in, the car felt fine on pace laps the LF arm was holding the front end up, not noticeable to me (possibly) upon the turn exit i could not center the wheel back to neural position because the RF torsion bar had slid out against the RF wheel  this made me turn abrubtly  (almost exactly) like Donnys lack of steering and hitting the wall,  mine however took me up three-four laneds of track immediately broadside to trailing competitors, it was a horrific feeling, another car was tore up in the incident, thankfully we all walked away,  my crew checks and rechecks TB stops from now on..    i cant dissagree with the retainers just hope they become a hassel free item.

They have not used that type of stop for the past 15 years. A bolt with a nut on the other end does not add anymore force towards tightening of the stop.

My 2 cents are that because the r front stop & bar under so little of load that when they do come into play the bar is  abruptly twisted which forces a quick snapping action to the stop.  JMO 

This TB issue is not something completely new. I can a remember a local team here in the midwest using threaded rod to retain the stop as long as 5'ish yrs ago. The theorys of "WHY", since then have never been fully answered. There was one explanation from a machinist friend of mine, that was kind of backed by rumor ( I know, let the bashing begin). But the splines on the torsion bar could have been cut too deep, resulting in an uneven clamping/tightning situation. I will let the keyboard jockeys hash this one back in forth, but I wanted it out there to possibly help this problem of late.

 Drivers and crew members that do their homework, are aware of several issues with certain parts or brands. We're aware of possible, or even proven "BAD" run of parts. Those that take the time to dig for info, often save funds that could have resulted in a wadded up car or worse yet driver. There are some respected racing folk that grace these forums from time to time, just hoping some light can be shed on this subject.

This has been a rough summer with some injuries and worse yet fatalities. In our neck of the woods we're seeing some steering gear issues. Get these things magnafluxed if you thump an infield tire enough too bend an axle. Unrelated, but had a buddy split 2 steering cases apart from a HIGH pressure problem. It was a new situation for even a seasoned vet. One last thing, Kind of hoping that with these things happening to higher profile drivers, this will result in solved problems for us broke azz weekend warriors... Johnny Fahl

All good points but it seems that Knoxville has been the leader in safety issues and regulating sprint cars for the past decade. It seems obvious to me that Dirt Racing Group should be looking out for the safety of the drivers more than a single track. Funny how Dirt Racing Group is silent on so many significant issues.

Maybe the fact that he made it through 1 and 2 just fine he was able to figure out that it must have come off down the back stretch.  Just a hunch....

That's awesome.

Maybe Donny doesn't remember, but in '97 at the nationals, he trashed a car on his qualifying night.  I believe he was leading the feature, or was running very good.  That is the year that Guy Forbrook was hired shortly before the nationals and they were wicked fast.  Same type of deal-one of the front stops came off going into 3 and he destroyed the car.  I remember that Donny or Guy mentioned the stop had been torqued but that the hole was too tight and bound up the bolt shank as it was flexed from the stop pinching around the torsion bar.  Maybe there are some similar issues going on again. On my own car, I always either open up the bar/stop clearance hole another 1/32, or drill out the threads and put a longer bolt in with a nut. The retainers are a nice idea, but they are not fixing the cause of the problem. 

I was the crew chief on Lance Blevins car for awhile in '98.  One night at Williams Grove, his dad was standing on the trailer door watching me torque all the arms and stops before hot laps.  Couple laps in and LR arm falls off!  Good thing he saw me do it, or I probably would have been canned for leaving stuff loose. 

he probably did not know it till after wreck and someone carried it over to him.

BUMP