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Topic: 305 meeting...
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Page 2 of 4 of 67 replies
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September 12, 2012 at
02:16:23 PM
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428
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Reply to:
Posted By: Sprnt12 on September 12 2012 at 12:29:53 PM
Why not everyone adapt Racesaver/IMCA rules and go have a good time?
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No kidding wouldn't that be a novel idea! Just think how many cars these tracks would get, the stands and pits become fuller, the more hotdogs and pop that is sold, the more money local convenience stores make . But wait lets mess it all up and try our own rules that won't get teched uneven advantages and that list goes on and on and ruin another class. The race saver is a proven affordable racing class that needs to be promoted and let the rest go run and ruin another class .
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September 12, 2012 at
02:32:19 PM
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302 pistons are available from all piston sources along with GM. 4x3 motors were very popular a few years ago. Spacer bearings are available for small journal steel cranks to fit lg journal blocks. Small journal rods are available in 5.7 and 6.0 along with Honda journals. I've built tons of these in the past. There a also numerous factory 305's available from finished to stock. Wheeler or Speedway Motors has them in stock.
Ivan
Geneva Machine, Inc.
Sprints rule
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September 12, 2012 at
02:35:16 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: 88sprint on September 12 2012 at 09:07:05 AM
How many $18000 305's are out there? 2? Maybe 3? This has been talked about almost as much as the Triple X debate....
How much of that money is parts cost and how much was labor cost? If you go to Wesmar/Ostrich/Kistler etc, you will pay a lot of money for a motor. Granted, it will be a nice motor, but those numbers are grossly inflated. $10K is much more along the lines of the motors I know about. But what do I know?
I will point out again, even if you spent $15K on a 305, it should be capable of winning races. How much will a COMPETITIVE 360 cost you? Anyone that says less than $20Khasn't raced 360's(and it will be a lot more than $20K) . But again, what do I know?
I think the 350 block idea is good IF and only IF they will pump motors on a regular basis. If no one is going to tech them, might as well say goodbye to the class.
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I am a current owner of a extremely competitive ASCS car
and I spent less than 20k on my 2 year old "House" motor (not much
less but still less) and it will run with any of the top ASCS motors out
there. I am down a little on power when comparing to the Roush Yates motors but
who isn’t?
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September 12, 2012 at
02:37:59 PM
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11/25/2005
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558
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Reply to:
Posted By: Sprnt12 on September 12 2012 at 02:32:19 PM
302 pistons are available from all piston sources along with GM. 4x3 motors were very popular a few years ago. Spacer bearings are available for small journal steel cranks to fit lg journal blocks. Small journal rods are available in 5.7 and 6.0 along with Honda journals. I've built tons of these in the past. There a also numerous factory 305's available from finished to stock. Wheeler or Speedway Motors has them in stock.
Ivan
Geneva Machine, Inc.
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Hi dome 302 pistons are easily available,flat tops which would be needed are not.This is just an unneeded engine combination that will further split the class.
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September 12, 2012 at
02:46:24 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Desflur on September 12 2012 at 02:16:23 PM
No kidding wouldn't that be a novel idea! Just think how many cars these tracks would get, the stands and pits become fuller, the more hotdogs and pop that is sold, the more money local convenience stores make . But wait lets mess it all up and try our own rules that won't get teched uneven advantages and that list goes on and on and ruin another class. The race saver is a proven affordable racing class that needs to be promoted and let the rest go run and ruin another class .
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problem is you can't go back in time....
305's were started without the RaceSaver option in our area. If you change the rules at this point in the game, you have players that have already spent their $$ that either cannot or will not spend more to stay in the same class (and you remove any possibility of them selling their existing motors to a new team).
The bottom line is you need to make the motors out there now LEGAL to run and you need to offer a COMPETITIVE cheaper alternative to entice new car owners/drivers.
Changing the rules to RaceSaver engines does neither (some guys running 305's will tell you that they have less in their motor today than a RaceSaver costs to buy).
We need to stop splintering the sport further and further. STABLE RULES is what will grow 305's. If you change the formula every 2 or 3 years there will never be any used equipment for teams to buy that is affordable.
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September 12, 2012 at
05:37:28 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: dirtybeer on September 12 2012 at 01:43:42 PM
Still waiting,surely you made sure parts were readily available before you proposed rule changes.Anyone can easily buy hyper or forged flat top pistons for a true 305 from KB-Icon,Weisco,JE,and on and on.Tell us all about these 302 pistons and who all makes them would you?
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SO YOU SCREWED UP ON YOUR COMPRESSION POST ...NOW
YOU WANT THE WORLD TO BELIEVE THAT PISTONS ARE NOT
AVAILABLE...WRONG AGAIN STUPID...WHAT IS NEXT ...NO
VALVE COVER GASKETS..IF YOU OWN OR DRIVE A RACECAR
I WOULD BE SURPRISED... STOP PUTTING DOWN THE GUYS
THAT ARE ATTEMPTING TO KEEP THIS DIVISION ALIVE
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September 12, 2012 at
05:52:41 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Desflur on September 12 2012 at 02:16:23 PM
No kidding wouldn't that be a novel idea! Just think how many cars these tracks would get, the stands and pits become fuller, the more hotdogs and pop that is sold, the more money local convenience stores make . But wait lets mess it all up and try our own rules that won't get teched uneven advantages and that list goes on and on and ruin another class. The race saver is a proven affordable racing class that needs to be promoted and let the rest go run and ruin another class .
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A-men. It is amazing how we can not learn from the past.
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September 12, 2012 at
07:15:52 PM
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Reply to:
Knoxville and burlington would do best if they went to racesavor. IMCA and I think Eagle have gone to racesavor. .One problem is that 305 blocks and oem 350 blocks get risky when you get over 500 hp.You could allow the 350 block with 3 inch crank and still follow all the other racesavor rules. You would hp reduced to I think they said 450 hp. The knoxville 305 with present rules are up to about 550 HP in some cases. I do not know what happened but there was a 4 inch bore engine that was built for knoxville. It lasted about 3 nights and blew up.
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September 12, 2012 at
07:17:26 PM
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Agreed, and flat top 302 pistons are available everywhere also!
But I would rather see a racesaver rule than 10 others to live with!
Sprints rule
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September 12, 2012 at
09:55:00 PM
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Reply to:
Southeast Iowa owners do not give up. MOWA is very interested in developing a 305 support class. Hang in there
Rusty Rogerson
[email protected]
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September 13, 2012 at
07:08:00 AM
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If your are trying to build 305's that make 550 and be economically friendly good luck. HP equals money. Not saying I like or hate Racesaver. It does have its ups and downs but the package is to limit Hp reducing rebuilds and trying to stop guys with money that buy 3 new tires every night and brand new cars every year, By lowering the purse and paying everyone pretty much the same. Know there are Racesaver guys who forget why they started running 305 instead 360 who try to ruin it for everyone but hey if they want brand new stuff I will be more than happy to beat your spoiled brat with my driving ablity and sub par 8 year old Race car. Even the Ohio guys don't change the rules every year.
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September 13, 2012 at
11:25:06 AM
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What about running gm 5.3L motors with 305s. Mercer raceway park has been running them together called the Outlaw Sprint Warriors. Just completed the 2nd year and class is growing. 305 rules are close to racesaver rules. The 5.3L rules were what Sharon speedway was running under.
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September 13, 2012 at
11:54:15 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: crsa305 on September 13 2012 at 07:08:00 AM
If your are trying to build 305's that make 550 and be economically friendly good luck. HP equals money. Not saying I like or hate Racesaver. It does have its ups and downs but the package is to limit Hp reducing rebuilds and trying to stop guys with money that buy 3 new tires every night and brand new cars every year, By lowering the purse and paying everyone pretty much the same. Know there are Racesaver guys who forget why they started running 305 instead 360 who try to ruin it for everyone but hey if they want brand new stuff I will be more than happy to beat your spoiled brat with my driving ablity and sub par 8 year old Race car. Even the Ohio guys don't change the rules every year.
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My kinda driver. Love the post. Exactly right.
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September 13, 2012 at
11:57:32 AM
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10/09/2010
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428
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Reply to:
Posted By: crsa305 on September 13 2012 at 07:08:00 AM
If your are trying to build 305's that make 550 and be economically friendly good luck. HP equals money. Not saying I like or hate Racesaver. It does have its ups and downs but the package is to limit Hp reducing rebuilds and trying to stop guys with money that buy 3 new tires every night and brand new cars every year, By lowering the purse and paying everyone pretty much the same. Know there are Racesaver guys who forget why they started running 305 instead 360 who try to ruin it for everyone but hey if they want brand new stuff I will be more than happy to beat your spoiled brat with my driving ablity and sub par 8 year old Race car. Even the Ohio guys don't change the rules every year.
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And I bet they hate it when a guy pulls in with an open trailer and kicks their butts. Ha Ha.
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September 13, 2012 at
12:11:29 PM
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558
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Reply to:
Posted By: sprintfn1 on September 12 2012 at 05:37:28 PM
SO YOU SCREWED UP ON YOUR COMPRESSION POST ...NOW
YOU WANT THE WORLD TO BELIEVE THAT PISTONS ARE NOT
AVAILABLE...WRONG AGAIN STUPID...WHAT IS NEXT ...NO
VALVE COVER GASKETS..IF YOU OWN OR DRIVE A RACECAR
I WOULD BE SURPRISED... STOP PUTTING DOWN THE GUYS
THAT ARE ATTEMPTING TO KEEP THIS DIVISION ALIVE
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You shouldn't have any trouble listing some part numbers then.You aren't keeping the division alive you are hurting it,a constant consistant set of rules is what strengthens a class,making up new ones every few years will kill it.
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September 13, 2012 at
01:04:10 PM
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I'm not going to pick a side so I have built both a new 305 to the current Midwest rules and just got off the phone with a parts house and ordered the parts to build a 350 block motor the parts cost about the same with in $500.00 but the. Machine work is going to cost less to do for the 350 block this is with no injection and may parts and labor will be around $6900
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September 13, 2012 at
01:28:05 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: N.G. on September 13 2012 at 01:04:10 PM
I'm not going to pick a side so I have built both a new 305 to the current Midwest rules and just got off the phone with a parts house and ordered the parts to build a 350 block motor the parts cost about the same with in $500.00 but the. Machine work is going to cost less to do for the 350 block this is with no injection and may parts and labor will be around $6900
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HEY NICK...GOOD CALL..WITH A FEW DISCOUNTS ..USING ALL GOOD PIECESAND MACHINING COSTS..I JUST COSTED OUT WITH THE 350 4 BOLT BLOCK AND IT RAN $5850.00 PLUS INJECTOR AND PUMP...I BELIEVE MAKING IT AFORDABLE FOR THE GUY THAT CAN DO HIS OWN LABOUR
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September 13, 2012 at
01:41:57 PM
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The only problem I see is in the cranks they are $700-2500
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September 13, 2012 at
01:49:25 PM
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Has anyone checked the price on 408ci pistons yet? Thanks in advance
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September 13, 2012 at
01:59:35 PM
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This message was edited on
September 13, 2012 at
02:13:00 PM by Sprint_99
Reply to:
Posted By: D12 on September 12 2012 at 11:47:12 AM
dirtybeer where did your post go calling me Jethro? Here is the math for you because you obvisously dont know anything about building engines other than what a catalog says.
comp ratio= cylinder vol + clearance vol + piston vol + gasket vol + chamber vol DIVIDED By clearance vol + piston vol + gasket vol + chamber vol
So lets take a typical 305 sprint motor 3.796 bore, zero deck, flattop piston with 2 valve reliefs, 50 cc head, .04 head gasket
comp ratio= 39.36 + 0.0 + .195 + .527 + 3.05 DIVIDED BY 0.0 + .195 + .527 + 3.05= 11.43
Ok now keep everything the same except for the cylinder vol because that is all that will change. so 4.00 bore and 3.00 stroke.
comp ratio= 37.680 + .195 + .527 + 3.05 DIVIDED BY 0.0 + .195 + .527 + 3.05=10.98
So it is almost exaclty .5 less like I said earlier. The swept volume of the 4.00 bore motor is actually smaller than the 305 because the stroke is so much shorter. So before you go calling me Jethro next time do the math(if you can) other than going by what a catalog says.
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You do realize that there are no 4.00 bore 350 blocks out there. Most will need to go at least 4.030 and some .040 or .060.
try your compression math again
You are also assuming a .060 over 305
try it with 3.736
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