Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

You sure you really want them to make a video? Sounds like Jamie is pretty upset with them. My guess would be if they are at the shop then they probably really don't know what they are doing. So a guy has a hole in his chest and they can't find it? Hmm that is someone I would want to make a video, where is the fire crew at and how come they are not posting. As far as running on the track if you watch down in turn 1 you have about 1 or 2 guys who run on the track and you watch the others run the other way i've seen it.

How come the Balls aren't on here calling these guys out? Let the fire crew know you're mad at them and see if they post on here about why they missed this and missed that.

Their fire crew is all about glory. I've seen them on t.v saying they did this and they did that.

How much do they really know and how much are the drivers helping them while inside the car to make them look better?

I haven't seen any pictures on here of what they are doing to make it any better. Have they called any companies to see how they make stuff, have they cut any cars, are they working on how to remove drivers from the cars?

If the driver is mad about they missed something well then shouldn't the rest of us take a step back and say "maybe they aren't the best around" sometimes champions get beat and maybe Knoxville is on it's way down the ladder to where someone has over taken being the best and nobody realizes it.

If I were on the safety crew and people were calling us out on hoseheads either saying how good we are and how bad we are then at least they can say thanks. O yeah I forgot this isn't t.v. At least step up and say yeah I missed something or we missed something and let us know how you're fixing it. You're not the best unless you can man up to your mistakes and come out and say yes we f ed up and we know this.

The ASCS Warrior Safety Crew operates with the following equipment:

3 Compressed Air Foam Systems These systems mix air, water, and foam. The fire suppressant produced is the consistency of shaving cream and is propelled by the air pressure as opposed to a water pump. The hoselines are always charged and ready to dispense the suppressant. No time is wasted starting a pump, priming a pump, stretching a flat fire hose and charging the hose.

Crew members wear three-layer fire suits, nomex underwear, nomex hood, eye protection, etc.

The extrication equipment is provided by Hurst Jaws of Life. One combination cutter/spreader tool, one set of shears, one set of spreaders, a confined space cutter, two reciprocating saws. Various spare tools are available in the hauler in the event of a complex extrication. Currently, the Hurst eDAULIC Tools are being used in conjunction with the traditional hydraulic powered tools. Visit www.jawsoflife.com to see examples of these tools.

Numerous hand tools are also on carried. Dry-chemical extinguishers are also carried but the CAFS is the weapon of choice for fuel fires.

The ASCS Warrior Safety Crew is a traveling operation staffed by active and/or retired professional fire fighters. Most members are EMT's or Paramedics. However, the Warrior crew does not provide ambulance service. Operating a traveling ambulance that would need to be licensed in multiple states and counties is a complicated and very expensive endeavor. The tracks provide the ambulance service.

Ben T

"If you're gonna run the bottom, you might as well get 
a real job."

I believe one of the guys was wearing an orange Nomex suit because every member of the safety crew got new suits at the season-end banquet one year. Some of them have newer yellow ones now too. Cars not stopping (when the red flag is out) is an issue that a lot of tracks (Knoxville included) should address, as stuff like that happens from time to time. If those cars had stopped, the safety crew could've crossed the track and attended to the fire sooner.

Not sure about the MO crew, but everybody on the Knoxville crew has Nomex suits. The fire crew guys have the Nomex suit, head sock, and wear helmets.

2 things to videotape would be how to quickly extinguish a methanol fire, and how to extract a driver with a possible neck injury.

There are lots of examples over the years of fire crews at various tracks not quickly & efficiently putting out a methanol fire. Just this year though so far Gary Wright (ASCS National race at I-30) and Logan Schuchart (All Star show at Cannonball Speedway) luckily were able to get out of their cars under their own power... but then watched as their cars basically burned to the ground due to lack of equipment and/or knowledge of how to extinguish an methanol fire. I've seen Knoxville's crew quickly put out varying degrees of methanol fires for a long, long time.

The Butlerbuilt and other full-containment seats do a great job to protect drivers from getting injured in crashes... but if they do get injured and need to be extracted, it is for sure more challenging to get a backboard behind the driver without moving them, etc. That is probably what the Knoxville safety crew guys were looking at when they went to see Jamie Ball's car at his shop. There is always room for improvement, but the Knoxville guys are as good as any crew I've seen.

Ok, so you joined to post a bunch of bs about the Knoxville safety crew. Where does your hate for them come from? Here are a couple examples of what Larry Ball Jr. has posted on his facebook page. Really sounds like they are pissed off at the Knoxville Safety Crew doesn't it? (sarcasm)

Larry Ball Jr

July 5 near Des Moines, IA via mobile

Do you want to know how good knoxville raceway safety crew is and how much they care? The turn 3-4 guys that helped Jamie are coming over tonight to our shop to use the same exact car and seat, as it was crashed, to see what they can do to make themselves better, faster, safer and more efficient! These guys care and that means the world to me as a racer and as a dad of a racer!

Larry Ball Jr The cage is eventually going to get chopped up when they use the jaws of life. I have essentially donated the roll cage portion to the Knoxville Safety crew guys for training purposes. They are shooting video of the extrication and then breaking down the process and making changes and trying again to make themselves even better than they already are

If it took 30 minutes for them to find a hole in Jamie's chest, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that it's because they were attending to other injuries he sustained in the wreck (shattered elbow, multiple lacerations) and that 1/2 of that time was in the Knoxville ER (not the safety crew doing the work there, that's the local Hospital), as he was in the ambulance and gone from the track within 10-15 minutes and the hospital is ~ 2 minutes away by ambulance.

I'm sure Jamie is upset (anyone that's ever been in a wreck is upset about something), but I don't think Jamie would have gotten the attention he had gotten had this accident happened somewhere else.

The safety crew were on their radios within SECONDS of the crash stating that they thought Jamie was hurt and it would take time to extract him (the call came before the crew had made it to the car and it didn't take them long to do that). Had they gotten there and he was fine, he would have climbed out and some "fans" would complain that they opened up the Red Flag for no reason.

Jamie aside, let's say a bad accident happens with driver XX, at track X is driver XX more mad if they take too much time to get him out and he has a laceration (which isn't life threatening) or if the crew hurries as fast as they can and miss something like a broken vertebrae in their neck and pull him out of the car without taking the right precautions which actually causes more injuries????

If the hole in Jamie's chest was the most extreme of his injuries, was he compaining about chest pain to the safety crew? Or was he complaining about his elbow and arm?

From the grandstands I could see his head (and arms) flopping prior to his car coming to rest, I actually feared that I had seen yet another driver perish from a racing accident.

Ok, I'm tired of the bs. I work down there. Yes we did miss that he had a laceration in his arm pit region, yes we did miss he had a cut on his leg. No we did not miss his right arm hanging there and his elbow the size of the softball. He was knocked out prior to landing and work up when we arrived to his car. If you have a radio and sit in the stands with it, you would of heard me call the wreck when nate lost his motor and tyler hit the wall, that was long before the wreck was even finished. If you watch the video they have the crew we have down in turn 3 was at the berm waiting for the last 2 cars to cross in front of us, we ran to his car asked him a few simple questions and his response was my f ing arm. After a couple of sec went by we had asked again to see if anything else started hurting and he just kept saying his arm. We left him buckled in his car and went to work on his arm. Yes there is more to the story that I myself will not add on here and yes we are down to balls working on stuff but that is besides the point. I can tell you one thing, I know if you wreck at the race track in Knoxville you will have a hand full there in no time, there is no lack of fear. I have not been able to see Jamie yet but I did apologize to Larry for what we did miss and it has not gone un noticable by the crew.

I can vouch for the fire crew in turn 3 we have a crew of 3 with fire experience between us all you have close to 18 years and on the back stretch close to 30 years.

The crew wears a 3 layer suit, nomex hood, nomex underwear, and nomex sox, witch racing shoes from simpson. Most of us have moved to mechanix wear for gloves, by far the best gloves i've been able to use.

We have Halmatro extrication tools, combo cutter spreader along with a pedal cutter, we also have hearst. But I can promise the Halmatro tools cut way better then hearsts.

Each member at a corner is set with 10 lb purple K exting. and one 20lb water exting. with foam, the fire truck has a 250 gal water tank with foam in it and also both sides of the truck are full of extra exting.

One thing you have to remember working on sprint cars is, if it catches on fire the meth burns clear and only the contents have flames. So in the instance where there is a fire, the actual fire is burning clear and you will have to go through the first part of it to reach the car, then you will get to the source of where the fire is coming from to contain it.

For removing people out of a car it depends on the car, seat, driver and some other things, we have been working at Balls using a ked board, piece of webbing strap and a back board. We had a fake driver in the car and we had them out in like 3 min. of starting front to finish. There is some variables in there with that also because of the seat, we are not touching the seat so the mfg comapny can see the seat, so that takes a little more time.

I am going to say that I am impressed with Knoxville Raceway safety crew and that
there is no other place in the world that I would ever want this exact crash to
happen than at the Knoxville Raceway. Jamie's close call had nothing to do with
the safety crew and the outcome had everything to do with the safety crew. They
evaluated his injuries and we all knew he had a badly broken arm. They also
knew that he had no other chest or neck injuries and he showed no other signs
of pain other than his right arm. I was standing in turn 3-4 when he crashed
and as soon as I knew he was hurt I stood close enough so that he could see me
and I could see him and out of the way so the people that I trust and have
helped me through a few bad crashes of my own, could take care of Jamie and get
him out of the car without hurting him any worse and get him to a hospital to
further make a better evaluation of his situation.

What has impressed me more than anything is that Austin and Shane that work that
corner called me and wanted to see the car and to speak with me. We discussed
how the situation was handled and things that they felt they could improve on.
So I offered Jamie's car to practice on at our shop and the car was minus the
engine yet in the same exact condition as it left the crash. They brought the
same group of guys over to our shop and put someone in the seat with Jamie's
suit, helmet, head sock etc… on to
practice and time the extrication, all to make themselves better and more
prepared for the next similar situation. They did this on their own time and on
their own free will. They were at our shop for over two hours and I asked them
if they wanted to shoot a video and one thing led to another and Mike Roberts
was called and he called Chris Croughn and Caren Just and they brought the
cameras and made a dvd so these guys could watch themselves and make a change
here or there to make themselves better. There is a plan to make another video
with more eyes and hands of even more of Knoxville raceway safety personnel,
that they can use as possible training videos for themselves or maybe even
others? These guys care about us as
drivers and as people. We all know it is
a dangerous sport and we all enjoy sprint car racing in many different ways.

Bottom line is Jamie is going to recover 100% and be ok to race again. There are
lessons to always be learned and these guys care enough to want to be better
and hope to help others be better. In this case I am asking and hoping everyone
involved and not involved be united in helping Jamie, myself and all racing
families thank these guys and gals for caring so much!

Larry Ball Jr

For what its worth, not only are the guys and gals at Knoxville the Very Best, the crew on the backstraight, are the very best at Bar-B-Que as well. There is never a race that I'm there that they dont have me over for Pork Chop's, Corn on the Cob, Fruit and they always make sure this ole boy has plenty of water. They have become like family to me and my fellow photographers (only the good ones) for years and not only are they the best at what they do, they are all hard core race fans and thats why they take their work so seriously. I've always said in my 42 years of being at Knoxville, if I was to ever be injured or hit by a sprint car, I know in my heart I can always count on my crew and all the staff at Knoxville.

I have been in almost every state in our country covering sprint car racing and have seen alot of EMT and Fire and Rescue Crews, but never, have I seen anyone that even comes close the the dedicated men and women of Knoxville.

DK/Photodaddy

Serving the Motorsports Industry since 1975!

Thanks for wading through the BS for everyone Larry.

Out here in California I would say that the Tulare Thunderbowl safety crew does a great job. Perris Auto Speedway has another awesome group of safety workers who understand sprint cars and the issues involved with getting a driver out safely. These two tracks are on top of wrecks immediately and know what theyre doing.

"Winged or non-winged its all about 
the sprint cars for me!"
http://mattmusselldesigns.daportfolio.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch%3fv=z0nU7-MC87s

This is from Tulare and it was a horrible crash that the safety crew arrived on scene in mere seconds. Allard gave many thanks to the safety guys following this devastating wreck. Thunderbowl is a fast and wicked track that when things go wrong they tend to be bad violent wrecks. Thankfully the crew is on top of their game.

"Winged or non-winged its all about 
the sprint cars for me!"
http://mattmusselldesigns.daportfolio.com

Accolades to the ASCS Warrior Safety Crew. And accolades to Knoxville crew. I have not personnally witnessed the Warrior crew but it appears they have the training, the equipment, the operating procedures, of a well organized team, as does Knoxvville. When an incident occurs at Knoxville, even mutlti-car incidents, the safety team....stress team.....knows who will respond where, knows where to place personnel and responding equipment, and functions in a timely and professional manner. Great job Knoxville. And I wish ASCS could explore making such safety teams as Warrior available at all their events. Yes, it is the old $$$ once again, but it would be a win-win-win for ASCS, the drivers/teams, and the fans. Safety first. Accolades again Warrior Region....excellent example!!!!!

this makes a person want to drive to Knoxville just to shake your hand and the hands of your fellow safety workers.

The greatest knowledge is to know that you know nothing
at all.

as far as liability of a video you sign a waiver at the gate,(sadly todays world is beyond that) yes some lawyers could weed through the B.S. and proubly get his client what they want, but seriously, 90% of us would rather have someone with a tidbit of information aimed in the correct format for keeping ones composure for the aid of a driver. "you cant help me, if you cant help yourself" Its a gentelmans agreement when we strap in that the crew has my back, (unfortunatly it goes unthanked all too often) Ok so make a generic vid, no names, no responciblity within, no set safety standards, for a hobbyist sporting event Ill burn a 1000 of them I just dont see the wrong in this, If you do , maybe one needs to attend a sprint race at the local "gravel road race track" at one time specials have you, and see if everything looks lagit to you?, its there !, its dangerous! ,it goes unnoticed untill the $hit hits the fan! , Wolfgangs ordeal should have made everybody stop in thier footprints and take a good look at whats going on, were lucky hes still here today, I noticed in the vid of the fire the driver was countious, how could this rescue be more complex if he hadnt been!, thats a big guy !, full containment seats!, its just not ez getting in and out of these cars anymore , I just hope were all prepared.. I honestly dont think im strong/heavy enuff to pull someone that size out on my own(im 180lbs) average size guy, why would anyone else? besides a big Bull?? ive taken the firemans agility course, draggn a 170lb slug 30 yards is nothing like thro fire with no oxygen and someone twice that size, how can you not want to be prepared without a reasonable doubt ,you prepared yourself fully to your knowledge, and the help of others (piers have you) as a Safety Crewman JMO, thanks to all that contributed to a (finally) real topic on here..

Thank God that Jamie is ok and thank you to the Knoxville Safety Team! You guys rock and do a very good job.

The two tracks that I go to are Husets and Knoxville and I am thankful that they both have great safety teams. I go to Husets far more often and one of the things that I see them do is they have a two guys, one in turns 1-2 and the other in 3-4 that are on four wheelers. These guys have all the Nomex suits and other gear and fire extinguishers. I have noticed that these guys will take off and follow cars into the pits if they are smoking or have blown an engine. They also can get to any part of the track in a couple of seconds on the ATVs. I think that more tracks need to do this.

Every year at the nationals, the thing that impresses me most is how fast the safety team gets to the drivers. Simply awesome.

I guess it's pretty darn unanimous, Knoxville is it! I have seen them in action, and met some of the guys, and I definitely wish every track was that good. I have been to other tracks where I have crashed, and the safety crew was more rattled than I was. That is not reassuring. If fans on here take this seriously it would be good for them to band together and form some kind of benevolent group to help finance an improved safety team at their local track. I know that in PA the York County Racing Club funds an injured drivers fund, if other areas had hard core fans who helped fund a safety team, that would be a big boost for the sport.

Ok I watched the t.v show and I'm sorry that looked like an udder cluster trying to watch those guys remove him from the car. Im sorry for being this way I'm not usually like this. Are these the same guys that are going to the shop and working? By watching the video you watch the lady on the video she put the strap on the wrong side of the car and then you see the crew guy on the back of the car and he grabs around the waist area, now by doing this isn't he defeating the purpose of using the board?

Has anyone seen pictures of the crew working on the car or a video, I just can't help but believe that the 3 on t.v are the ones who are actually doing this. I'm not looking for running people down but that didn't look the best.

Knoxville, Knoxville, Knoxville hands down! I've been going to races for 57 years now, and I've been attending races at Knoxville for 46 years now. I have never seen a better safety crew at any short track race. That also goes for Doug and Justin Clark in the flagstand.