Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Why not be proud of beating, Hawkins, Adams, Howell, Sneed, Robbins, Wester, Taylor, ect. These are all GREAT 305 guys with low budgets and jobs, just like us. ASCS dont have the seals, instead its a $2000 protest procedure. I dont know about you, but I dont have that kinda cheese to bring to the track, just in case I think someone is cheating. What I do know, is that I can go to my tech man, the same guy that you think is "not the brightest person in the world" tell him my issue and he will check it out for me, for free.

I would think most Knoxville 305 cars would be Racesaver legal just by change of heads , if you assume car is legal at Knoxville. most Knoxville 305 are wet sump. You hear about roller cams, but every engine was checked 2 years ago and none was a roller. Of course a person could have a roller cam that does not show unless you look real close. It would be nice if every one ran just for fun, but you will always have those that want to rub your face in it. Racesaver would be great if every track polices it. GOOD LUCK

Well Ricky you know how us hillbillies are only we dont run with Smiley either .I have no idea who you are, or how long you have been running sprint cars ,but we will see you if you are racing in the D/FW area . I will assure you our motor wasnt built under a shade tree and even if it had it was good enough to win three features last year . As for the light weight bottom end ,sealed or not there is rules for that also. If you want to spend 18000.00 on your motor thats your business but I dont race on the dyno we race at the track however we do tune on a dyno and its not even under a shade tree .

I said the wrong thing. I would be proud of beating all the SST guys, and I think anyone would. My point is that I want to race against the best competition possible, and that competition is going to be at Cowtown and KSP. I would like to see Smiley open up his races and let anyone race who wants to, but I do understand that he built his deal as a club, and that is what it is. It's just hard for me to consider a club racing. You bump someone too hard, race someone too hard, etc...you get thrown out. That's just not for me. SST is what is, and it's just not for me. I would like to race with all those guys, and hopefully they will come to Cowtown/KSP. As far as cheating, I think that is going to have to be a deal where you suspect it and you collect some money from a few people and put it up. I just don't think you are going to see the type of cheating that you see in ASCS 360 racing. There just isn't a lot you can do. I'm real curious to what peoples thoughts are on what kind of cheating will be going on. You have a head you can't port, steel vales, life rule, spring pressure rule, CC rule, etc.... I really think ASCS getting in the mix will be a good thing. I think SST is a good thing. I think anything to expand sprint car racing is a good thing.

SMYFFA, I don't care where or who builds anyones engines, but what I'm getting out of all this discussion about 305 racing is that people don't want race engine shops involved in this. If you want to build your own motor and not pay a shop great. But don't get pissed because someone else will pay, and they will spend a lot of time on a dyno to squeeze every bit of horsepower they can out of a motor. If you go to a machine shop and have them build you a bone stock 350 it's probably going to cost close to $5k. Labor and parts just aren't that cheap these days. Bottom line is all 305 motors should be really close to one another with the rules they have now regardless of what kind of parts you use. I just really don't see what all the fuss is about. This class will come down to who has their car working the best. This will be my first year racing a sprint car. I raced modifieds for years. Took about a 3 year break to get my family, and career established. I just couldn't see getting back into that. This 305 deals seems to be the best thing going. I look forward to racing with yall, and look me up. Another reason getting into the sprint cars was due to the people that race them. Seem to be a really good group. I'm hoping to make the opening night if I can get the motor wrapped up.

Ricky the whole idea behind not sealing is to do what you want even if you want to take a chance on someone putting up 2000.00 to protest . I for one have been in and around racing for over 20 years and even when the protest fee was 500.00 i never once witnessed anyone taking a chance on being wrong and losing a protest fee ,it may have happened but I never seen it . not only are you asking some one to put up 2000.00 to protest a motor how many tracks have a tech guy that would have the knowledge to find anything when all they know would not even scratch the surface of what a motor builder like Dick Sweat knows ,I would doubt very few if any . Maybe the sealing process has not caught all the motors that are illegal but not sealing them is giving them a licence to do what ever they want to and put the burden of responsibility on you to put up your hard earned money up and the confidence that the tech guy could find what they are doing . My question still is what is broke about the fact of having your motors sealed if your not trying to circumvent the rules in some manner ?

Here is the problem with the seals, anybody can get them. sealed my ass.

http://americancasting.com/info-wire-seals-sw-1000.asp

http://americancasting.com/info-seal-tools-bulldog-sp.asp

It is a good deal and it can stay that way and there are good people in it and it can stay that way and thats why Im so passionate about leaving something alone that is not broke ...........I have never raced anything but a sprint car and every motor I have ever had was built by a motor builder ........Im not against someone having their motor built by a motor builder Im not against someone spending 18000.00 for a motor Im against someone screwing up what has been a success and has grown every year since being introduced in the D/FW area........for no good reason. I challenge you to get your car right and get comfortable and load your a.. up and go race with the guys that are wanting to change if not the rules but the process and race with them . I will guarentee you if left alone the current racesaver rules and inforcement will provide a more consistent playing field than what is being proposed.

I think the sealed motor is the abosolute best way to go, but you will never get everyone on board. If ASCS had a close race, I would take my sealed motor and feel confident I could compete. Teching is always going to be an issue. Heck, I would bet you anything 90% of all ASCS 360 motors are ILLEGAL. If they had a head porter teching heads they would kick out 90% of them.

The fact to compare your motor to theirs is purely hypothetical ......more especially since you dont even have it together . When you do get it on the track check back with me and let me know how many RPMs your motor will turn on the track Im guessing somewhere in the low to mid 7s thats not on a slick track when you fail to catch it and then see if you can figure out how they turn theirs 8600 there in is where the extra horsepower is made . So for sake of arguing with you find out yourself . However you are spot on why ASCS 360 is where it is today and ASCS is the series you want to run the 305s ? I really dont understand how you can rationalize that ...........

Is there any chance at all you will have it ready for the big race in Lubbock next month ? That sure would be a great chance to see if you would like your motor matches up to the ASCS cars 305 that is..

Possibly, but I've been around racing way too long to drive 6 hours to go race a car that I have never been in. I have a learning curve ahead of me. It will be impossible for anyone to turn these motors 8500 rpm's. You just can't do it. I have worked at a machine shop for over 10 years. I know what sprint car motors can and can't do. We have built them all; midgets, USAC, Outlaw, ASCS, and a couple 305's. If those guys are legal then they can't do that. If they are then they are cheating. I will stick with Cowtown and KSP and work to learn the car. Once I get a good footing I will venture out a little. I'm sure I know you if you have been around sprint cars for 20+ years. Probably have done motor work for you.

The guys that have gotten ASCS involved motors turn 85 to 8600 consistantly ..........this is the point I have trying to make . just like days of thunder they got a special matched set of tires I guess lol..noticed I have not said they are cheating . just the facts. call them they will tell you they tuen em that tight and they are the only one that has the formula......

That's amazing that they can do that with the cam and springs you have to run with these motors. I thought this ASCS deal was brand new, and they haven't even had their first race. We obviously have a lot to learn. Anyway, I'm really looking forward to racing this 305 deal. The cars seem to really run well for what they are. Like you, I hope all series can keep a similar set of rules that give you options of where to race. I think the racesaver rules are the best out there right now.

How tight do you turn your engine? I figure 7800 and mine is about done. Can it turn more? Maybe, but I'm not going to find out and blow it up until I've got a replacement.

Ok , now just exactly how would I go about proving it ? I have seen a friend of mines tach after a race because I told him I didnt believe it . And I have also heard Dick tell him to run it over 8. So what does yours turn ? Just because you bought a motor from someone doesnt always mean its like everyone else or like the one they run huh ? even Ricky can tell you there are some motor builders that will do one thing on one that they dont do on another..

I turn mine 7800-8000 as recommended. Was told that it wouldn't hurt if i missed the gear and run it out to 8100-8200, but that 7800-8000 was where it liked to be run. And that is exactly the same figure that the car that races out of ASI's shop runs as well. I know this for a fact. We were on the same exact gear at Kilgore and turned the same RPMs.

I think 305's are already broken. I didn't spend 13K on my whole car when I first started (2004). 18k is not an entry level engine in my book. 7k bought my first engine (360) and it won some heats and wound up in the top 3 a few times (after I learned how to drive).