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Topic: Safest Sprint Car Chassis
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December 17, 2011 at
02:10:13 PM
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J&J and GF1 racecars have the best welds as a whole. I really think maxim racecars has the worst welds in the industry. They build fast racecars, but their welds wont pass a standard welding test. As for XXX their welds are better than maxim but their not up to the standards of J&J or GF1. But as a whole I believe most shops including xxx have plymouth tubing in them, and all the tubing comes from Germany. If everyone is as serious about avoiding XXX they should also take all their winters parts off their car as alot of their stuff comes over on a boat as well. Also has anyone ever been seriously hurt or killed in a XXX?
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December 17, 2011 at
02:13:26 PM
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Where did I say XXX was Junk? I, too can print off some papers that appear to be certified MTR's, appropiate welders certs, qualifications, etc. Are you suggesting that any of the major chassis companies are doing this, including XXX? For your information, it is a federal crime to falsify any of these type documents or create documents that appear to be in kind to these documents.
Do you believe that Maxim, J&J, Avenger, etc, will risk their reputation and business by falsifying any of the above? Violations can result in large fines and even prison. If you don't believe me, ask anyone
that works in the Inspection field associated with metals fabrication. And you are correct, I haven't owned or never will own a XXX. So if my opinion is useless to you, so be it. I think Will Rogers (Cherokee) once said something to the effect, "the downfall of a great leader is one that tries to please everyone". Good luck with your racing career! And I mean that sincerely.
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December 17, 2011 at
02:42:02 PM
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I have to say that I have great trust and faith in my Wolfweld chassis'. We have unfortunately destroyed a few of them over the last few seasons at Knoxville, which is one of the fastest tracks in the USA and can also be one of the hardest on equipment and drivers. Fortunately, with Doug's cars and Butlerbuilt seats, Chad was able to walk away virtually unscathed every time.
One thing that Doug does differently is how he constructs the cage. Instead of the front down tube being part of the cage, Doug makes the cage hoops all one piece and then attaches the down tubes. This, in my opinion makes the cage structure stronger, and also it makes it easier to put a front clip on without having to slug anything but the bottom two frame rails.
Lastly, I have never seen any welds that looked as good as anything that Doug does. He personally welds each one of his cars that he builds and takes tremendous pride in his work. Also, he had fits every piece of tubing which adds to the overall integrity of the car.
MB
Rome wasn't built in a day......but they sure didn't
waste any time burning it down!
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December 17, 2011 at
02:45:10 PM
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I have never seen one of his cars in person to know about the welding but I have seen where he makes his cage all one loop and welds the front down tubes to the car. Like Mark said when it does need a new clip I think that is a way better deal.
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December 17, 2011 at
03:07:58 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: cheroger on December 17 2011 at 02:13:26 PM
Where did I say XXX was Junk? I, too can print off some papers that appear to be certified MTR's, appropiate welders certs, qualifications, etc. Are you suggesting that any of the major chassis companies are doing this, including XXX? For your information, it is a federal crime to falsify any of these type documents or create documents that appear to be in kind to these documents.
Do you believe that Maxim, J&J, Avenger, etc, will risk their reputation and business by falsifying any of the above? Violations can result in large fines and even prison. If you don't believe me, ask anyone
that works in the Inspection field associated with metals fabrication. And you are correct, I haven't owned or never will own a XXX. So if my opinion is useless to you, so be it. I think Will Rogers (Cherokee) once said something to the effect, "the downfall of a great leader is one that tries to please everyone". Good luck with your racing career! And I mean that sincerely.
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No, I didn't say anyone was making false papers about thier welding etc. But if all you need is some papers to believe a car is better than the next, you are going about choosing a car in the wrong way.
The bad thing about asking questions such as "who is safer/better/faster/etc", is that it is up for user opinion. If I win with brand A, I won't support brand B. I had a Maxim I couldn't make fast for the life of me, do I say Maxim is a bad car? Of course not, they win races, MY experience with them doesn't cover the company as a whole. I chose to go elsewhere and have been happy since then. I have won in Gambler, J&J, Maxim, XXX, and Avenger. They are all pretty much copied off the same pattern, they can all be good. The location of assembly has nothing to do with performance.
+1 on the Winters comment........but no one is complaining about them......
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December 17, 2011 at
03:37:51 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: 88sprint on December 17 2011 at 03:07:58 PM
No, I didn't say anyone was making false papers about thier welding etc. But if all you need is some papers to believe a car is better than the next, you are going about choosing a car in the wrong way.
The bad thing about asking questions such as "who is safer/better/faster/etc", is that it is up for user opinion. If I win with brand A, I won't support brand B. I had a Maxim I couldn't make fast for the life of me, do I say Maxim is a bad car? Of course not, they win races, MY experience with them doesn't cover the company as a whole. I chose to go elsewhere and have been happy since then. I have won in Gambler, J&J, Maxim, XXX, and Avenger. They are all pretty much copied off the same pattern, they can all be good. The location of assembly has nothing to do with performance.
+1 on the Winters comment........but no one is complaining about them......
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It's quite obvious that I am more into and aware of the quality assurance aspect of this issue than you are. Could be because of a career of over 45 years in related disciplines? One additional comment, That Winters rearend or other attachments have nothing to do with driver safety as compared to the chassis (roll cage).
One last comment. How many Doug Wolfgang types are being replaced or suffering income lose because of Chinese welders, that don't even know what they are working on?
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December 17, 2011 at
04:09:13 PM
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I guess if you feel you are more "aware" of it than me, ok, if that makes you feel better. But are your "disciplines" making you strap into the cars you are commenting on? I get in one (almost) every weekend, so I feel I am aware of it just fine. So you can think what you want and I will be ok with that.
I just don't see that a certificate on the wall proves anything. Do you really think they just showed them how to turn on a welder and let them have at it in China? I would be willing to bet they had a more in-depth training course than your local VoTech welding school has....
I don't know how many peoples lives are affected by XXX being manufactured in China. I am guessing you don't either. Are you saying that everyone in the US only works on what they know about? If XXX was produced over here, how many lives would that affect in China? Before you say you don't care if it affects them, are you going to imply we are more important that the people in China? Get real, they are doing thier job just like you are. Are you willing to work for their wages? If so, I bet XXX would love to get rid of that freight bill they have every year......
About Winters, those axles that are breaking don't have anything to do with a drivers safety? In your words, "It's quite obvious" you have never had a axle break while you were sitting in the car.....
I think it is time to agree to disagree and move on. You are another one that is too "hardcore" American to see past the screen in front of you...or maybe you just have enough money to buy whatever you want and not have to budget. In that case, want to sponsor a racecar?
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December 17, 2011 at
04:28:02 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: 88sprint on December 17 2011 at 04:09:13 PM
I guess if you feel you are more "aware" of it than me, ok, if that makes you feel better. But are your "disciplines" making you strap into the cars you are commenting on? I get in one (almost) every weekend, so I feel I am aware of it just fine. So you can think what you want and I will be ok with that.
I just don't see that a certificate on the wall proves anything. Do you really think they just showed them how to turn on a welder and let them have at it in China? I would be willing to bet they had a more in-depth training course than your local VoTech welding school has....
I don't know how many peoples lives are affected by XXX being manufactured in China. I am guessing you don't either. Are you saying that everyone in the US only works on what they know about? If XXX was produced over here, how many lives would that affect in China? Before you say you don't care if it affects them, are you going to imply we are more important that the people in China? Get real, they are doing thier job just like you are. Are you willing to work for their wages? If so, I bet XXX would love to get rid of that freight bill they have every year......
About Winters, those axles that are breaking don't have anything to do with a drivers safety? In your words, "It's quite obvious" you have never had a axle break while you were sitting in the car.....
I think it is time to agree to disagree and move on. You are another one that is too "hardcore" American to see past the screen in front of you...or maybe you just have enough money to buy whatever you want and not have to budget. In that case, want to sponsor a racecar?
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"Hardcore American", I like that, thanks for the compliment. Oh, and I and countless others served in the Armed Forces, for America, not China, not Russia, not Cuba or any other Communist country, so you and I can have the right to choose. When offered a choice, I choose American!
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December 17, 2011 at
05:07:08 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: cheroger on December 17 2011 at 03:37:51 PM
It's quite obvious that I am more into and aware of the quality assurance aspect of this issue than you are. Could be because of a career of over 45 years in related disciplines? One additional comment, That Winters rearend or other attachments have nothing to do with driver safety as compared to the chassis (roll cage).
One last comment. How many Doug Wolfgang types are being replaced or suffering income lose because of Chinese welders, that don't even know what they are working on?
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in my first week of working for Lockheed missiles and space as a machinist building parts for space shuttles and satellites and the like i was walking back to the machine shop from the tool crib after getting new tooling for a project i was working on and i was in disgust because all the tooling thy issued was from japan and china and i thought i was working for an American company and at that time i believed everything in America should be American lol so i decided to stop at the supervisors office to ask the question why is all the tooling and most of the machines we use foreign crap i mean this was Lockheed and there is not a company thats more American than Lockheed right and what he said was the beginning of my realising how wrong that way of thinking is he simply said --we us foreign crap because all of the American stuff breaks--now u should take some time to reflect on that
Robert Bond San Jose Ca
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December 18, 2011 at
03:38:29 AM
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If I live to be 100 years old I will never get over the hypocrisy of the "Buy American" crap in this modern day & age.
How can someone sit and type on their foreign-built computer using internet providers serviced by foreign countries (likely India and/or the Phillipines) and wearing clothes from Bangladesh & Hong Kong judge anyone for buying an outsourced chassis?
I say quit whining about where something is made. Crazy talk... I know.
If XXX truly is the antichrist... then people that have owned, worked on, driven, etc. a XXX chassis are communists. They're flat out un-American. They're bad people. They have 666 on their scalp and probably even hate apple pie.
As expensive as racing is... run what you want when you want where you want. If you want to build it yourself... go ahead. If you want to buy it... go ahead. If you feel better buying it because you can visit the factory... go ahead. Do whatever you want... we live in a free country.
The people that don't like XXX chassis either didn't get something for free from them and/or have nothing to do with sprint car racing other than posting on a message board.
Either way... who cares??????????
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December 18, 2011 at
08:03:54 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Some Guy In Texas on December 18 2011 at 03:38:29 AM
If I live to be 100 years old I will never get over the hypocrisy of the "Buy American" crap in this modern day & age.
How can someone sit and type on their foreign-built computer using internet providers serviced by foreign countries (likely India and/or the Phillipines) and wearing clothes from Bangladesh & Hong Kong judge anyone for buying an outsourced chassis?
I say quit whining about where something is made. Crazy talk... I know.
If XXX truly is the antichrist... then people that have owned, worked on, driven, etc. a XXX chassis are communists. They're flat out un-American. They're bad people. They have 666 on their scalp and probably even hate apple pie.
As expensive as racing is... run what you want when you want where you want. If you want to build it yourself... go ahead. If you want to buy it... go ahead. If you feel better buying it because you can visit the factory... go ahead. Do whatever you want... we live in a free country.
The people that don't like XXX chassis either didn't get something for free from them and/or have nothing to do with sprint car racing other than posting on a message board.
Either way... who cares??????????
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I LIKE!
A Bad Day Of Sprint Car Racing Is 10 Times Better Than
A Good Day At Work!
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December 18, 2011 at
10:13:22 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Some Guy In Texas on December 18 2011 at 03:38:29 AM
If I live to be 100 years old I will never get over the hypocrisy of the "Buy American" crap in this modern day & age.
How can someone sit and type on their foreign-built computer using internet providers serviced by foreign countries (likely India and/or the Phillipines) and wearing clothes from Bangladesh & Hong Kong judge anyone for buying an outsourced chassis?
I say quit whining about where something is made. Crazy talk... I know.
If XXX truly is the antichrist... then people that have owned, worked on, driven, etc. a XXX chassis are communists. They're flat out un-American. They're bad people. They have 666 on their scalp and probably even hate apple pie.
As expensive as racing is... run what you want when you want where you want. If you want to build it yourself... go ahead. If you want to buy it... go ahead. If you feel better buying it because you can visit the factory... go ahead. Do whatever you want... we live in a free country.
The people that don't like XXX chassis either didn't get something for free from them and/or have nothing to do with sprint car racing other than posting on a message board.
Either way... who cares??????????
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I know am safe then, apple pie has always been my favorite!! I ask for it instead of a birthday cake every year!!
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December 19, 2011 at
01:56:32 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: international on December 16 2011 at 06:32:40 PM
The sprint car crash test video raised a bunch of questions and hopefully more insight into safer designs.
Out of the current builders, who would you consider is building the safest cars? Granted we all know sprint car racing and racing in general can be dangerous and no chassis is perfect, but with that said some can be and probably are a bit safer then others.
There are lots of builders today... Maxim, J&J, Eagle, ART, Schnee, Wolfweld, KPC, XXX, GF-1, Beaberbuilt, etc and I'm sure there are advantages and disadvantages to each when it comes to making them fast... but who do you think is ahead of the curve for driver safety?
Could be cockpit design, different placement of some bars, added bars, consistency of their builds, quality of their welds, etc. Curious who people choose and why. Maybe that crash video gets people thinking about safety equally with speed and not just which cars are fastest or easiest to set up.
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All I can say is China does not enforce much how good products are made For fact a company made a cough syrup with antifreeze as the liquid part and several people died. They also put hazardus waste material in the plaster of plaster board and sent it to this country. I do think the owner of XXX wants to build good sprintcars. How many american cars has a driver head hoop available. I buy american because I want to support them. But how many chinese products have I bought because I did not know it was made there. I must admit that I purchased some china item I knew about. When you compare the cost of racing the extra $1000.00 you paid does seem like much to buy american. I sure would like to see these crash tests on all cars, but if a builders car is terrible they might have trouble explaining it. I know for fact that if a company pays for the test they do not have to tell results. Right now if you want a XXX buy one, I will still buy american. I have friend for 2 years trying to get me to buy XXX. No I will not.> I ordered a set of SS valves from a very very well known engine builder, package said made in Pakistan. I later had to reorder 2 valves and the package had engine builders nam
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December 19, 2011 at
12:29:12 PM
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This message was edited on
December 19, 2011 at
12:43:57 PM by [email protected]
I'm one of the owners of XXX. Normally, I don't comment on these threads, given they are mostly a discussion of people's personal buying choices. It’s never been our company’s goal to change anybody’s philosophies on world economics or influence their buying decisions. Rather, we provided a transparency into our company that was (and is still) unheard of in the industry, and let an informed racer make their own decision.
That said, it has always been a goal of XXX to build the fastest and safest chassis in the industry.
To achieve this goal, we closely partner with a production facility that is ISO9001 certified. This is a world recognized certification. We have employees of TripleX onsite full time, and make frequent visits to ensure the quality of the product produced is among the very best in the industry.
But, it does not stop there. We specify the tubing in the chassis ourselves, and have it milled specifically for us (which is one of the reasons our chassis bend, as opposed to break during wrecks). Not simply relying on mill certs, we take samples from each production tubing run, and have it independently tested at certified test facilities in the US. The results of which we post to our website for the industry to view … http://www.xxxraceco.com/chassis%20metal%20test%20results.htm
Every aspect of manufacturing process is designed by experts in the open wheel racing industry (some of which work full time at XXX) to ensure it meets our high quality bar. And, we inspect and test parts in our WA manufacturing facility to ensure that quality bar is met.
Most importantly, we solicit feedback from race teams that use our products to ensure they are satisfied. If they report issues, we address them immediately.
I’m sure there are lots of people on this forum that will dispute all this citing irrelevant examples of poor offshore production, etc. So to them, I simply will provide one last undisputable fact …
We started producing XXX chassis in 2006. Since, XXX chassis have won 811 feature wins, compiling 93 championships. http://www.xxxraceco.com/chassis%20chassis%20results.htm. Could an inferior product really last 6 years in the industry, and continue to rack up wins and championships faster than any other chassis?
Feel free to ask me questions on this thread, or directly at [email protected]
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December 19, 2011 at
12:45:23 PM
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Xenophobes screwed again...
Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better
weather." Van May
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December 19, 2011 at
01:51:51 PM
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About how much cheaper is a xxx chassis then an American made one ? I like to buy American made products if I can. My whole family tries also. Like to try to keep jobs in the good old USA. How much does a welder in China make welding one up? It seems kinda strange to speend all that money on an engine but worry about what you spend on a chassis .
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December 19, 2011 at
01:55:13 PM
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I did take a very hard crash in my SCHNEE at Jackson(1/2 mile). Walked away. I barrel rolled into the top of the 20 foot fence then rolled back onto the track. The car has one bent down tube, the halo bar is bent and dented towards my head, and a few small bars in the rear were dinged. ALL WELDS HELD! I walked away. The welds on Doug Wolfgangs wolfwelds are 2nd to none, absolutely beautiful!
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December 19, 2011 at
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can u imagine what would happen if China decided to collect on the dept that George Bush ran up with them -------hell thy would own us
Robert Bond San Jose Ca
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December 19, 2011 at
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Reply to:
Posted By: [email protected] on December 19 2011 at 12:29:12 PM
I'm one of the owners of XXX. Normally, I don't comment on these threads, given they are mostly a discussion of people's personal buying choices. It’s never been our company’s goal to change anybody’s philosophies on world economics or influence their buying decisions. Rather, we provided a transparency into our company that was (and is still) unheard of in the industry, and let an informed racer make their own decision.
That said, it has always been a goal of XXX to build the fastest and safest chassis in the industry.
To achieve this goal, we closely partner with a production facility that is ISO9001 certified. This is a world recognized certification. We have employees of TripleX onsite full time, and make frequent visits to ensure the quality of the product produced is among the very best in the industry.
But, it does not stop there. We specify the tubing in the chassis ourselves, and have it milled specifically for us (which is one of the reasons our chassis bend, as opposed to break during wrecks). Not simply relying on mill certs, we take samples from each production tubing run, and have it independently tested at certified test facilities in the US. The results of which we post to our website for the industry to view … http://www.xxxraceco.com/chassis%20metal%20test%20results.htm
Every aspect of manufacturing process is designed by experts in the open wheel racing industry (some of which work full time at XXX) to ensure it meets our high quality bar. And, we inspect and test parts in our WA manufacturing facility to ensure that quality bar is met.
Most importantly, we solicit feedback from race teams that use our products to ensure they are satisfied. If they report issues, we address them immediately.
I’m sure there are lots of people on this forum that will dispute all this citing irrelevant examples of poor offshore production, etc. So to them, I simply will provide one last undisputable fact …
We started producing XXX chassis in 2006. Since, XXX chassis have won 811 feature wins, compiling 93 championships. http://www.xxxraceco.com/chassis%20chassis%20results.htm. Could an inferior product really last 6 years in the industry, and continue to rack up wins and championships faster than any other chassis?
Feel free to ask me questions on this thread, or directly at [email protected]
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thanks for posting unfortunately some people just aren't smart enough and or mature enough to get it
Robert Bond San Jose Ca
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December 19, 2011 at
05:36:15 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: [email protected] on December 19 2011 at 12:29:12 PM
I'm one of the owners of XXX. Normally, I don't comment on these threads, given they are mostly a discussion of people's personal buying choices. It’s never been our company’s goal to change anybody’s philosophies on world economics or influence their buying decisions. Rather, we provided a transparency into our company that was (and is still) unheard of in the industry, and let an informed racer make their own decision.
That said, it has always been a goal of XXX to build the fastest and safest chassis in the industry.
To achieve this goal, we closely partner with a production facility that is ISO9001 certified. This is a world recognized certification. We have employees of TripleX onsite full time, and make frequent visits to ensure the quality of the product produced is among the very best in the industry.
But, it does not stop there. We specify the tubing in the chassis ourselves, and have it milled specifically for us (which is one of the reasons our chassis bend, as opposed to break during wrecks). Not simply relying on mill certs, we take samples from each production tubing run, and have it independently tested at certified test facilities in the US. The results of which we post to our website for the industry to view … http://www.xxxraceco.com/chassis%20metal%20test%20results.htm
Every aspect of manufacturing process is designed by experts in the open wheel racing industry (some of which work full time at XXX) to ensure it meets our high quality bar. And, we inspect and test parts in our WA manufacturing facility to ensure that quality bar is met.
Most importantly, we solicit feedback from race teams that use our products to ensure they are satisfied. If they report issues, we address them immediately.
I’m sure there are lots of people on this forum that will dispute all this citing irrelevant examples of poor offshore production, etc. So to them, I simply will provide one last undisputable fact …
We started producing XXX chassis in 2006. Since, XXX chassis have won 811 feature wins, compiling 93 championships. http://www.xxxraceco.com/chassis%20chassis%20results.htm. Could an inferior product really last 6 years in the industry, and continue to rack up wins and championships faster than any other chassis?
Feel free to ask me questions on this thread, or directly at [email protected]
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Mark, I only have one question........WHY CAN'T YOU MAKE YOUR CARS HERE??????
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