|
|
|
|
|
Topic: Double file resarts?
|
Email this topic to a friend |
Subscribe to this Topic
| Report this Topic to Moderator
|
|
Page 2 of 4 of 68 replies
|
|
|
|
April 12, 2011 at
06:48:51 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
12/05/2010
|
|
Posts:
|
840
|
|
|
This message was edited on
April 12, 2011 at
06:51:05 PM by Sprinter 79
Reply to:
Posted By: vanh on April 12 2011 at 03:05:16 PM
They are doing it because they like to race
I do not think any of them do it for me to have something to watch.
I do not think I owe them anything
That does not mean that I don't respect them , I do, but saying they risk their life just for the fan is a little much
Our Military people risk their lives
These people are having fun racing
Big difference
They quit racing my life goes on but if the Military all quit and go home we are all in trouble
|
Oh, come on Vanh. Entertainment is the only reason that we race! lol....Seriously, we race because we love it. You are correct there. But spectators come because they love it as well. There is a trade off there. It would just be nice if there could be a little give and take on both sides. We realize (talking only for our little racing effort, not the sport as a whole), that we need to give a bit so that the show can be more entertaining, thus continuing to grow. And we would appreciate that in some cases a spectators wishes can either cost us our safety and or huge amounts of money. Some of the teams, heck, allot of the teams are scraping by to race in the first place. Some things will increase fan base while depleting car counts. That is all I am trying to say. I am sure that the three teams that turned cars over Saturday night in Burlington are not happy that they have to spend huge amounts of money to race in the next event. And if they can not get the cars fixed immediately then the sport will be more boring as there are not as many cars........And YES, military folks deserve our respect, admiration, and thanks for all that they do. No truer words have been spoken here lately.
Never hit stationary objects!
|
|
|
|
|
April 12, 2011 at
08:18:19 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
08/16/2009
|
|
Posts:
|
3982
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: BLUTEAM on April 12 2011 at 12:50:21 PM
and if even one car gets torn up enough in a double file restart to end their season then you have just shrunk the sport and it doesn't matter what the fans want.
Let the fan fund just one race night (without any problems) and they might change their tune. I wonder........how many laps have been added to the WoO's races this year because of crashes during double file restarts AND did those extra yellow laps contribute to the all dreaded red flags for re-fueling?
Double file restarts suck.
|
"it doesn't matter what the fans want"? Really? I don't ask them to come to my place of work and walk in my shoes for a day. I go to the race track for entertainment and i pay for that entertainment. I will go whether there are single file or double file restart. I love racing. BUT, to attract new fans racing is going to have to add more elements of excitement to the sport to keep today's short attention spanned american happy. I dont want to see someone tear up their equipment and i will never know what it is like to fund a car for even one race night because i don't have any interest in doing that with my hard earned money. I pay my ticket, eat and drink the tracks refreshments, soak in the advertising from the sponsors on the cars and go home at the end of the night. I will go as long as i am entertained. I will not hate anyone if the racing gets stale. I wont boo the track owners or the cars. I will just find something else to do on a Saturday night. That is the only point i am trying to make. If racing wants to continue to grow, the fans have to be made happy. And short of a few diehards, the fans want double file restarts. It's a fact.
|
|
|
|
|
April 12, 2011 at
08:24:40 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
12/05/2010
|
|
Posts:
|
840
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: egras on April 12 2011 at 08:18:19 PM
"it doesn't matter what the fans want"? Really? I don't ask them to come to my place of work and walk in my shoes for a day. I go to the race track for entertainment and i pay for that entertainment. I will go whether there are single file or double file restart. I love racing. BUT, to attract new fans racing is going to have to add more elements of excitement to the sport to keep today's short attention spanned american happy. I dont want to see someone tear up their equipment and i will never know what it is like to fund a car for even one race night because i don't have any interest in doing that with my hard earned money. I pay my ticket, eat and drink the tracks refreshments, soak in the advertising from the sponsors on the cars and go home at the end of the night. I will go as long as i am entertained. I will not hate anyone if the racing gets stale. I wont boo the track owners or the cars. I will just find something else to do on a Saturday night. That is the only point i am trying to make. If racing wants to continue to grow, the fans have to be made happy. And short of a few diehards, the fans want double file restarts. It's a fact.
|
Well said egras. That does seem to be the truth, like it or not.
Never hit stationary objects!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
April 12, 2011 at
08:53:40 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
12/01/2004
|
|
Posts:
|
175
|
|
|
|
I don't like the double file. almost penalizes the top cars for running well. Yes, we start double file in the heats and features and those are bad enough on a car-owners heart. I don't see a reason to tempt fate any more. On the comment that seemed to say a fan's $25 admission is any comparison to what the owners and drivers spend, WTF?! Years ago we figured out that it cost $600 to run a car for a night, without any damage. And that was when gas for the truck was $2.00 or less and engines were $15,000. I consider fans that like crashes not serious fans. If you like crashes, buy a pit pass, walk up to any crew and offer to help on the car for the night. Someone will say yes, or just let you hang around. Watch how hard these guys work, especially if something gets bent and then tell me you like crashes. Fans and racers will always want different things, and I have no idea how to bring them together. I'm rambling a bit because there have been some jerk posts and I'm trying hard to stay civil. All I can say is, I've sat in the stands, have you worked in the pits?
|
|
|
|
|
April 12, 2011 at
09:22:04 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
02/12/2005
|
|
Posts:
|
680
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: egras on April 12 2011 at 08:18:19 PM
"it doesn't matter what the fans want"? Really? I don't ask them to come to my place of work and walk in my shoes for a day. I go to the race track for entertainment and i pay for that entertainment. I will go whether there are single file or double file restart. I love racing. BUT, to attract new fans racing is going to have to add more elements of excitement to the sport to keep today's short attention spanned american happy. I dont want to see someone tear up their equipment and i will never know what it is like to fund a car for even one race night because i don't have any interest in doing that with my hard earned money. I pay my ticket, eat and drink the tracks refreshments, soak in the advertising from the sponsors on the cars and go home at the end of the night. I will go as long as i am entertained. I will not hate anyone if the racing gets stale. I wont boo the track owners or the cars. I will just find something else to do on a Saturday night. That is the only point i am trying to make. If racing wants to continue to grow, the fans have to be made happy. And short of a few diehards, the fans want double file restarts. It's a fact.
|
Either I said it wrong, or you heard it wrong, but I'll be happy to appease you.
My point is - when the fans need for double file restarts begin to eliminate teams from participating because they get torn up on double file restarts, and they will, it will not have mattered what the fans wanted. In other words - want all you want Mr Fan, it won't pay the bills for torn up race cars and when the cars are gone, you'll be bitching that theres not enough cars.
Here's a fact for you egras - The racers want to be able to afford to race every week without spending every last nickel they have. It's a fact. It's also a damn good thing they aren't as selfish as some of the fans you say exist. Thats the truth. 
You wanna attract more fans? Put it on the promoter. The racers are already doing their part. Double file restarts suck.............for everyone.
The greatest knowledge is to know that you know nothing
at all.
|
|
|
|
|
April 13, 2011 at
12:30:27 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
08/16/2009
|
|
Posts:
|
3982
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: BLUTEAM on April 12 2011 at 09:22:04 PM
Either I said it wrong, or you heard it wrong, but I'll be happy to appease you.
My point is - when the fans need for double file restarts begin to eliminate teams from participating because they get torn up on double file restarts, and they will, it will not have mattered what the fans wanted. In other words - want all you want Mr Fan, it won't pay the bills for torn up race cars and when the cars are gone, you'll be bitching that theres not enough cars.
Here's a fact for you egras - The racers want to be able to afford to race every week without spending every last nickel they have. It's a fact. It's also a damn good thing they aren't as selfish as some of the fans you say exist. Thats the truth.
You wanna attract more fans? Put it on the promoter. The racers are already doing their part. Double file restarts suck.............for everyone.
|
I understand what you are saying and I also don't want car counts to suffer because teams can't afford to go to the track. I am like you, i will go to the track if they start single file or double wide. I love racing. If i have to lean one way or the other, I can't because good points are made both ways. I am simply stating that I don't feel these tracks/series/promoters have much choice with this. I enjoy the double wide starts, but Knoxville was very entertaining to me last year without them. However, if Knoxville's attendance suffers anymore down the road since the 50th anniversary crowd is now gone, i would say double files may (?) be in the future. Not that I am saying they should. But, to keep the purse growing they are going to have to fill almost all of those seats on Saturday night in August.
I dont disagree with you, just saying why it has to be done and likely will never go back. (maybe I will eat those words and they switch back tomorrow--i dont know)
|
|
|
|
|
|
April 14, 2011 at
04:22:04 AM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
07/10/2007
|
|
Posts:
|
947
|
|
|
|
I always thought the rest of the night is for determining your A main lineup!? How can people sit back and say "double file restarts are better cuz they give a guy with a bad qualifying time a better chance to make it to the front"?????? If he wants to get to the front he should have f-----n qualified better. he should have ran good in his heat race and proved he deserves the spot! If you start 18th in the A it's because you sucked and got YOURSELF there.
Furthermore, as the cars were racing on say lap #17 they were all strung out all over the race track!!! When a yellow or red flag is thrown it is for safety for the competitors!!! Now they line them back up in order of the last completed lap which is as fair as anyone needs TO EVER BE! At this point of the race there should be NO queer ass double file lineup to help the dick in the back get to the front!
DOUBLE FILE RESTARTS BLOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
do it in the dirt
|
|
|
|
|
April 14, 2011 at
08:11:35 AM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
12/01/2004
|
|
Posts:
|
512
|
|
|
|
Double file restarts are by far more popular than not. Makes the race much more interesting. If the drivers don't like it or can't afford double restarts they need to back up a few classes so they can afford it or don't race at all. Chances are, if double file restarts are the back breaker your in the wrong class anyhow. JMO.
|
|
|
|
|
April 14, 2011 at
10:28:51 AM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
01/28/2005
|
|
Posts:
|
8
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: mdr4774 on April 14 2011 at 08:11:35 AM
Double file restarts are by far more popular than not. Makes the race much more interesting. If the drivers don't like it or can't afford double restarts they need to back up a few classes so they can afford it or don't race at all. Chances are, if double file restarts are the back breaker your in the wrong class anyhow. JMO.
|
this could happen to ALOT of teams and if it does happen where we all move to mini sprints or even go karts you should have an even better time watching all three rows of double file restarts. it should be exciting. how many times did we watch the king come from the back and make passes to get to the front in the past. seems to me that the real problem isnt single file restarts but the racing surfaces themselves. if we cant race side by side then obviously we will go right back to follow the leader when the racing resumes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
April 14, 2011 at
12:15:14 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
08/16/2009
|
|
Posts:
|
3982
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: mdr4774 on April 14 2011 at 08:11:35 AM
Double file restarts are by far more popular than not. Makes the race much more interesting. If the drivers don't like it or can't afford double restarts they need to back up a few classes so they can afford it or don't race at all. Chances are, if double file restarts are the back breaker your in the wrong class anyhow. JMO.
|
That is pretty much it in a nut shell whether you are on the double file restart band wagon or not.
1. they are more popular than not
2. that is why the do them--because they are more popular than not
3. it does make the racing more interesting
Just like i said before, you are all entitled to your opinion and i dont yet have one either way, but these are the simple reasons for double file. They are pleasing the majority whether you believe that or not.
|
|
|
|
|
April 14, 2011 at
12:15:59 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
02/12/2005
|
|
Posts:
|
680
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: mdr4774 on April 14 2011 at 08:11:35 AM
Double file restarts are by far more popular than not. Makes the race much more interesting. If the drivers don't like it or can't afford double restarts they need to back up a few classes so they can afford it or don't race at all. Chances are, if double file restarts are the back breaker your in the wrong class anyhow. JMO.
|
ahh yes..........the 'ol if you don't like it then leave program.
Weird - figuring out ways to build the fan base and at the same time figuring out ways to reduce the car count. Makes sense to me.
The greatest knowledge is to know that you know nothing
at all.
|
|
|
|
|
April 14, 2011 at
12:30:07 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
04/30/2005
|
|
Posts:
|
677
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: BLUTEAM on April 14 2011 at 12:15:59 PM
ahh yes..........the 'ol if you don't like it then leave program.
Weird - figuring out ways to build the fan base and at the same time figuring out ways to reduce the car count. Makes sense to me.
|
Build the fan base and you can pay the money
If you can pay the money the cars will be there
Drivers making bad decisions on restarts destroy cars not double file restarts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
April 14, 2011 at
12:31:43 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
02/12/2005
|
|
Posts:
|
680
|
|
|
This message was edited on
April 14, 2011 at
12:39:41 PM by BLUTEAM
Reply to:
Posted By: vanh on April 14 2011 at 12:30:07 PM
Build the fan base and you can pay the money
If you can pay the money the cars will be there
Drivers making bad decisions on restarts destroy cars not double file restarts.
|
wrong. budgets make for bad decisions on restarts destroying cars.
question for you: how much would have to be added to the purse to warrant EVERY car throughout the entire field to say yep, could care less what the format is, even if it means tearing up a race car every night.
The greatest knowledge is to know that you know nothing
at all.
|
|
|
|
|
April 14, 2011 at
01:20:04 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
04/30/2005
|
|
Posts:
|
677
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: BLUTEAM on April 14 2011 at 12:31:43 PM
wrong. budgets make for bad decisions on restarts destroying cars.
question for you: how much would have to be added to the purse to warrant EVERY car throughout the entire field to say yep, could care less what the format is, even if it means tearing up a race car every night.
|
The driver makes that decision
I do not want to watch a race that they do not go for it
If I did I would watch interstate traffic for free
If it was safe and cheep we would all do it
|
|
|
|
|
April 14, 2011 at
01:45:50 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
11/24/2010
|
|
Posts:
|
109
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: doublenuthin on April 12 2011 at 08:53:40 PM
I don't like the double file. almost penalizes the top cars for running well. Yes, we start double file in the heats and features and those are bad enough on a car-owners heart. I don't see a reason to tempt fate any more. On the comment that seemed to say a fan's $25 admission is any comparison to what the owners and drivers spend, WTF?! Years ago we figured out that it cost $600 to run a car for a night, without any damage. And that was when gas for the truck was $2.00 or less and engines were $15,000. I consider fans that like crashes not serious fans. If you like crashes, buy a pit pass, walk up to any crew and offer to help on the car for the night. Someone will say yes, or just let you hang around. Watch how hard these guys work, especially if something gets bent and then tell me you like crashes. Fans and racers will always want different things, and I have no idea how to bring them together. I'm rambling a bit because there have been some jerk posts and I'm trying hard to stay civil. All I can say is, I've sat in the stands, have you worked in the pits?
|
Great post doublenuthin.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
April 14, 2011 at
01:47:26 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
02/12/2005
|
|
Posts:
|
680
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: vanh on April 14 2011 at 01:20:04 PM
The driver makes that decision
I do not want to watch a race that they do not go for it
If I did I would watch interstate traffic for free
If it was safe and cheep we would all do it
|
it is a narrow mind which cannot look at a subject from various points of view - George Eliot
It's obvious you are not happy unless you get your way. Might I pull a page from your book and suggest you find something else to entertain yourself - before someone goes broke or dies trying to make you happy.
Double file restarts suck - for everyone.
The greatest knowledge is to know that you know nothing
at all.
|
|
|
|
|
April 14, 2011 at
04:48:33 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
08/16/2009
|
|
Posts:
|
3982
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: BLUTEAM on April 14 2011 at 01:47:26 PM
it is a narrow mind which cannot look at a subject from various points of view - George Eliot
It's obvious you are not happy unless you get your way. Might I pull a page from your book and suggest you find something else to entertain yourself - before someone goes broke or dies trying to make you happy.
Double file restarts suck - for everyone.
|
You say you think everyone should have their own opinion, yet you tell us how it is and the only way it is? I think there have been some very good arguments both ways, so please don't say double file restarts suck for everyone. They suck for:
1. the driver(s) who got wrecked out because of a double file restart
2. anyone who loses the race because of a double file restart
3. the minority of the fans who hate double file restarts
They don't suck for:
1. the majority of the fans who like double file restarts
2. anyone who wins a race because of getting a double file restart
3. the drivers who don't wreck out during the double file restart
That is far from sucking for everyone. I think you seem to have the hardest time of everyone accepting that there may be a couple of opinions on this subject. Hell, we even heard from a racer on the forum who said he doesnt like them, but has to suck it up cause that is what the fans want. So suck it up and accept that there are many opinions on this.
|
|
|
|
|
April 14, 2011 at
04:57:08 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
02/12/2005
|
|
Posts:
|
680
|
|
|
This message was edited on
April 14, 2011 at
05:02:12 PM by BLUTEAM
Reply to:
Posted By: egras on April 14 2011 at 04:48:33 PM
You say you think everyone should have their own opinion, yet you tell us how it is and the only way it is? I think there have been some very good arguments both ways, so please don't say double file restarts suck for everyone. They suck for:
1. the driver(s) who got wrecked out because of a double file restart
2. anyone who loses the race because of a double file restart
3. the minority of the fans who hate double file restarts
They don't suck for:
1. the majority of the fans who like double file restarts
2. anyone who wins a race because of getting a double file restart
3. the drivers who don't wreck out during the double file restart
That is far from sucking for everyone. I think you seem to have the hardest time of everyone accepting that there may be a couple of opinions on this subject. Hell, we even heard from a racer on the forum who said he doesnt like them, but has to suck it up cause that is what the fans want. So suck it up and accept that there are many opinions on this.
|
I tend to think bigger picture then most. Comes from having to work for everything I have.
1. the majority of fans do not pay the bills on a race car
2. anyone who wins a race because he got to take advantage of a lineup or track position that improved his finish because of a double file restart will usually admit to that being the reason and not his talent or setup. And if he doesn't admit to it, guarantee he will be the first to bitch when it bites him in the ass.
3. drivers who don't wreck during a double file restart take a big breath of fresh air when its over.
Now - I've told each of you FANS why double file restarts are bad for everyone several times. Your only argument back reads like this - me, me, me, me. Read a little closer into my argument and you'll find it says - us, us, us. Thats you(the fan) and me(the fan & racer) and him(the promoter) = us. Only person that really gets hurt is the guy selling parts. Or does he?
Double file restarts suck - for everyone. I'm done.
The greatest knowledge is to know that you know nothing
at all.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
April 14, 2011 at
05:21:28 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
02/12/2005
|
|
Posts:
|
680
|
|
|
|
how many DFR's have been aborted for the SFR on the next restart because of carnage the 1st time
how many DFR's are the result of someone in the back of the field wanting to bunch the field up
how many fuel stops are the result of extra laps turned under yellow as the result of DFR's wreaking havoc on the field
how many new fans are there in sprint car racing because of DFR's
how many fans would leave sprint car racing if there were no DFR's
how many dollars have been spent by racers and their sponsors as the result of DFR's
is sprint car racing supposed to be a team sport out on the track and is it OK if DFR's play into that scenario?
"In the fourth and final heat race, Tommy Tarlton’s haste to get to the
rim bumped Steve Kinser, who let Tommy know about it under the ensuing
yellow. Tarlton swerved right back at The King. Before the final restart
in that race, Steve rolled up next to leader Jason Sides and signaled
for Jason to restart from the bottom, even though no one had done so
successfully all evening. The strategy was for Sides to possibly push
Tarlton wide enough that Steve could slip into second and therefore,
make the dash. It didn’t work, but did illustrate Jason’s status as
something of an SKR teammate."
OK, this time I am REALLY done. LOL Wait - double file restarts suck for everyone. Ok, now I'm done - maybe.
The greatest knowledge is to know that you know nothing
at all.
|
|
|
|
|
April 14, 2011 at
06:32:47 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
12/05/2010
|
|
Posts:
|
840
|
|
|
This message was edited on
April 14, 2011 at
06:35:14 PM by Sprinter 79
I would just like to clarify something. My intention is to follow the rules as they are set forth by the sanctioning body and or the track owners, promoters, and race officials. I would prefer to race single file restarts as they tend to be less hectic. I pay for my car with my hard earned money as well, and if all of those who race for the love of the sport, but with smaller wallets quit, like it was suggested, then you may have a handful of racers competing instead of fields of racers competing. I like the fans, I think that we the racers owe them a debt of gratitude for showing up. But I would much rather not listen to ALL of their opinions. Some suggestions are awesome, some are not. Especially when it can drastically alter my ability to race. Seems like allot of the spectators on this board feel that they should make the decisions that make or break the racers. Sorry folks, most tracks in the midwest, with local weekly shows have begun to realize that the back gate is as important as the front, as the front gates have dwindled over the years. For most racers the effort required to compete is akin to a full time job of which we hand our money out, not the other way around. No local show will EVER pay enough for us to be able to afford to total cars. Not even ONE! So sorry, I will play by the rules as my daughter LOVES to driver her race car, but it would be nice if some of the fans opened their mind to the concept that we are not racing Nascar Stock Cars........Love the fans, wish they would work with us. Sprint Cars are awesome, Period, not because of the restart format!!!!!!!!........Jim........And by the by, double file restarts are a joke in open wheel race cars.
Never hit stationary objects!
|
|
|
