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Topic: Knoxville Late Model Nationals....305's?
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Page 2 of 2 of 38 replies
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August 23, 2009 at
07:52:56 PM
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Knoxville definitely needs to get rid of the 66 car limit for its nationals & open it up.
They did the right thing at the time, but the prevailing factors have changed and it should be opened up very soon...like next year.
Knoxville got burned by the WoO during the second year of the LM Nat's. Due to opening up the tire rules and a multi-sanctioned event at Lakeside during the Cup weekend they ended up in the low 30's. (really hard to put on a show of that magnitude, Saturday night had just 3 races...C, B and A) .
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August 23, 2009 at
08:00:58 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Racefan22_7 on August 23 2009 at 05:59:46 PM
I don't think they'd have room for all of them that wanted to come. Look at what happens at the dream and world 100. 200 cars plus more that want to try. Doesn't make sense to me why so many would come with no real chance at it but whatever. What I think would be safe is around 100 cars at knoxville before the pamida lot would be needed as a pit area.
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Believe it or not the LM guys take up more room than a sprint team. They have a problem taking everything out of the truck and pulling the rig outside the infield. In all fairness, they don't have to too many other places so they don't have the covenience of a pit cart like most of the sprint teams. More places are requireing them to pit remotely from the hauler so the carts are starting to show up.
The other part about why so many would come if they don't have a chance is a little off base.....there is no doubt a higher percentage each year of potential winners than any Sprint National's since the 70's. What they really like is the bottom end payout and the opportunity to race at the best dirt track in the world.
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August 23, 2009 at
09:30:08 PM
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This message was edited on
August 23, 2009 at
09:30:46 PM by singlefile
Reply to:
Posted By: Speedbump on August 23 2009 at 08:00:58 PM
Believe it or not the LM guys take up more room than a sprint team. They have a problem taking everything out of the truck and pulling the rig outside the infield. In all fairness, they don't have to too many other places so they don't have the covenience of a pit cart like most of the sprint teams. More places are requireing them to pit remotely from the hauler so the carts are starting to show up.
The other part about why so many would come if they don't have a chance is a little off base.....there is no doubt a higher percentage each year of potential winners than any Sprint National's since the 70's. What they really like is the bottom end payout and the opportunity to race at the best dirt track in the world.
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I was actually thinking the same thing as far as your last paragraph is concerned. It is a lot more difficult to pick the top five at any of the major dirt Late Model races than at the major 410 Sprint Car races. If you want to eliminate everyone with virtually no chance at the 410 Nationals, the field would have about seven or eight cars -- and maybe just one car. LOL
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August 24, 2009 at
01:24:17 AM
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I tell ya what...the LM Nat's have rarely been short of excitement.
2008, Chili Bowl Champ Tim McCreadie hold of Tony Stewart mid race, lost the lead on the last lap and re-took it coming off if T4.
2007 Brady Smith takes the lead on lap 22, holds off several charges by Billy Moyer mid-race and dominates the last half of the race.
2006 major darkhorse Brian Shirley spins on the first lap, restarts dead last (31st) and takes the lead on lap 85.
2005 The year that the WoO and the tire rules screwed things up. Bloomquist wins with second place Brian Birkhofer rallying from the rear on the field in the last 60 laps.
2004 Birky wins the B main to get into the big dance and then wins the A!
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August 24, 2009 at
02:24:53 AM
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I'm thinking even the sprint cars could muster up something exciting in 100 laps! Of course there would be a fuel stop.
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August 24, 2009 at
06:09:44 AM
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Friday night...
Saturday night...
It's all good!
Stan Meissner
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August 24, 2009 at
06:12:06 AM
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P.S. The driver of the 15 in the top photo used to pit next to the driver of the 71 back when Hanestad ran Street Stocks and Donny was driving 360's. They were friends, why can't we all just get along too? 
Stan Meissner
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August 24, 2009 at
10:10:05 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Paintboss on August 24 2009 at 02:24:53 AM
I'm thinking even the sprint cars could muster up something exciting in 100 laps! Of course there would be a fuel stop.
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Of course there would be a fuel stop
Or 4!
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August 24, 2009 at
11:36:42 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: StanM on August 24 2009 at 06:12:06 AM
P.S. The driver of the 15 in the top photo used to pit next to the driver of the 71 back when Hanestad ran Street Stocks and Donny was driving 360's. They were friends, why can't we all just get along too?
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Stan ALWAYS has a local angle on nearly every topic! See ya out at CLS for the Jerry Richert race in a few weeks......
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August 24, 2009 at
11:38:17 AM
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Thanks for the info on the Late Model weekend at Knoxville. I like the mods but won't make this trip unless they add the sprint cars back to the show. Maybe next year.....
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August 24, 2009 at
02:13:36 PM
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I will agree that the Late Model races at Knoxville have been very good.
(A slight difference between a late model and a 305 could be weight.)
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August 24, 2009 at
04:27:09 PM
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This message was edited on
August 24, 2009 at
04:41:07 PM by Corey74
Reply to:
Posted By: Speedbump on August 23 2009 at 11:46:43 AM
the 305's were almost 2 seconds a lap faster
Nope. Are you claiming that the 305's are more than a second quicker than the 360's?
The LM track record is 16.631 The 360 track record is 15.973
The group the URSS ran with in KS was the Midwest Dirt Late Model series, a sanctioning body that attempts to bring all sorts of engine packages together with various weight and spoiler differences for the open motor's cars versus the SUPR or IMCA spec motor package, along with weekly spec D55 tires. Think of them as the 305's of the late model world, very easy to believe the sprints were much faster on a big half mile but no comparison to the LM's that run in Knoxville.
Too bad the 305's were replaced by the modifieds for the LM Nat's. The 305's did put on a good show, they looked to be a little slower than the LM's at Knoxville but it certainly did not detract from the action. Yes the LM Nat's will be just as big or bigger than the sprint Nat's very shortly after they remove the 63 car entry limit from the LM's Nats. I believe they can do it next year and have 2 complete but seperate nights of qualifying instead of having all cars run both nights. It will make the Saturday night portion much better and eliminate the need for any support divisions.
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LM fast time that night was 17.662, and no way would a 305 be 2 sec. quicker than that. But, a lot of cars were in 19's and 20's. I couldn't find any times for the 305's though. And in no way shape or form would I ever imply that a 305 was faster than a 360.
Like I said..."I heard" and you know how that goes...lol.
You are right about the LM's @ Norton, definitely more of a budget class that the WoO guys. Delbert Smith had fast time of the night I think.
Any thoughts on why LM's seem so popular now vs. Sprint Cars? KS seems to have gotten away from LM's and went more toward sprint cars, albeit 305's instead of 360's. And one WoO @ Dodge.
Lakeside had the best races I've seen in a long time Saturday, with the exception of turning way too many cars over. Love the Non wing cars...wish we had some non wing races in our schedule.
Edit for some facts I found. lol.
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August 24, 2009 at
04:34:38 PM
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LM's are the natural stepping stone from a hobby stock/modified type racecar. All stock car classes are cheaper for the promoter and cheaper for the owners. They also allow the show to move along much faster, which is conducive to the back gate promoting (more classes of racecars = more pit passes and entry fees) which seems to be necessary these days. (yes there are exceptions, my favorite track in Marion County being one of them....but it is a general trend that grandstand admissions are down and most of them come to watch a friend)
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August 24, 2009 at
05:18:54 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Michael_N on August 24 2009 at 11:36:42 AM
Stan ALWAYS has a local angle on nearly every topic! See ya out at CLS for the Jerry Richert race in a few weeks......
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That's because I don't get to travel much so local is the only point of reference I've got.
Stan Meissner
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August 25, 2009 at
06:40:57 AM
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I go to both the sprint nats and the late model nats and the lates put on a far better show than the sprints. The sprints have about 5 guys that are probably going to win where the lates have probably 20 top guys that would be a possible winner. Give it some time and it will be the bigger event, especially if they open the car count up. I know the sprint car die hards don't like it but I can see it happening.
As far as the 305 lining up with a late model and lapping them twice. No way. The late model would just stuff that sprinter in the wall going into turn 1. Race over.
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August 26, 2009 at
09:48:13 PM
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If you are a real sprint car fan, it is really sad that the late model purses normally outpay the sprint car purses. Really irritates my husband.
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August 27, 2009 at
01:03:26 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Xena on August 26 2009 at 09:48:13 PM
If you are a real sprint car fan, it is really sad that the late model purses normally outpay the sprint car purses. Really irritates my husband.
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Check your facts on that one. Weekly LM purses range from $700 to $1200 to win and $75 to $200 to start. Big shows like the WoO and Lucas Oil LM's get 10k to win and 700 to start but all have pretty steep entry/pit pass fees of around $100. Minor series such as WDRL usually pay $4000/$400 with roughly the same entry.
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August 27, 2009 at
05:26:41 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Xena on August 26 2009 at 09:48:13 PM
If you are a real sprint car fan, it is really sad that the late model purses normally outpay the sprint car purses. Really irritates my husband.
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You are correct: Around St. Louis there are a lot more $5k and $10k to win late model shows than there are larger purse shows for sprint cars.
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August 27, 2009 at
11:19:38 AM
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Sure there are more high dollar LM shows....there are more LM shows period. I still think the average purse is higher for sprints than LMs though.
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