Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

If we want a true test of "the Best driver" lets take Knoxville (maybe Eldora as well) and turn it into a 1/4 mile track, bank it and take down the walls. if we try and fool with the cars mechanically, those with the most resources will always "find a way" to make it about the car. As a fan of the short tracks I would never miss a big event. I guess we could compare it to the cookie cutter tracks of NASCAR, the only race I would ever go to are Bristol, Rockingham or Martinsville. The 1/1/2 mile tracks are a waste of every race fans time!

Just my opinions!

It's important to remember in times like these...that there have always been times like these. When I was in high school back in the early '70s, I tried to get my friends, who were stock car fans and regularly attended the weekly stock car races at the state fairgrounds in Des Moines (really good show, btw, with some great drivers like Blankenship, Dake, Sanger, Robinson and they drew about 7000 fans per night), to accompany me to Knoxville for the sprint car races. On the rare occasions when they'd come down, they complained about how there was little passing nor close racing. So really...what has changed?

What should we be focusing on in trying to establish a marketing approach...and we as sprint car fans are on the front lines in marketing the product...is that these guys are some of the best drivers in the country...even world...for ANY kind of racing. That these are unique and TRUE racing machines, tuned and driven to precision and yet, are so historically simple and bare-boned and that the concept of how these cars work has a historical element and basis that has remained unchanged in most ways. Sure, science and progression has played its part over the years but a sprint car is still, essentially, a sprint car, going back to the days of Parnelli Jones or A.J.Foyt or Mario Andretti. We know this sport is infinitely more exciting than NASCAR or even Indy Car racing but everybody in the mainstream thinks that's all that racing is about. Let's SELL these features of the sport (I'm sure you can think of other selling points as well) instead of running down the racing today in favor of another time. There really isn't THAT much difference, if any, between then and now.

Want to "fix" racing? Focus on selling tickets. Build up the fan base. Bring the families back into the mix again. Focus on selling to the 30-40 year-old dad and mom with kids, who will be the new fans of the next generation. Promoters need to sell tickets, through old and new media and wordof mouth. Establish relationships with community and professional organizations, unions, schools, ect. Sell this form of entertainment one-on-one and in small groups. Don't be so frugal about giving away tickets and most importantly, ASK FOR THE ORDER...in this case, ask people to come to the races! And when they get there, have a hospitality booth to help answer questions and have your announcers TALK TO YOUR FANS instead of talking AT them or bombarding them with sponsor's commercials and scripts...of which 99% of your customers (fans) aren't in the market to buy (Vermeer for example). And can we please forego the idea an announcer has to name all the sponsors on a race car? Time Trials are great...and interesting...if the announcer would tell the fans something about the guy on the track instead of rattling off sponsors. If fans want to know who is sponsoring a car, they'll see the logos on the car during the races or afterward in the pits.

Specifically to Knoxville Raceway...it pains me...no, it ANGERS me...when I see 30-40% of seats sitting empty during the Nationals and paltry crowds nearly all the rest of the season. The economy is NOT the primary reason attendance is down. If it was, how do you explain the downward trend over the last six or seven years? At Nationals, the interest level is down, not because of a lack of quality and excitement in the actual racing, but, maybe, because ther is nothing for folks to do while they are here. What activities are there for fans (especially families) during the day?. Please don't point out the trade show or vendors on the concourse because that stuff is all but dead. Everything that families might want to do is located out of town. That's opportunity lost to the local economy. At what point will the town's citizens or merchants decide that having all these people in town isn't worth the hassle (probably 50% feel that way already). THAT's how race tracks close down, folks. And don't think it couldn't happen here, someday.

Knoxville and central Iowa have sprint car races for ten straight nights. It's crazy to think many people can afford to be here anywhere near that long. This is why it is mandatory for survival to market central Iowa and Des Moines and let people know what's in their backyard, just a short drive away and how great the product really is. If you are persistent, people will eventually listen and many will come to the races.

Many of you know Bob Baker of the National Sprint Car Hall of Fame. I've seen many of the beforementioned practices used by Bob in his everyday encounters with people...waitresses in a resturant, attending a fundraiser dinner for the Knoxville high school baesball team, hosting various groups at an outing at the Hall of Fame or just talking up sprint car racing to people of all walks of life. He's enthusiastic and I know (because I've met many of them) he's bringing new fans to the track. He's also a very enthusiastic and gracious host for folks when they come to the races, always available to answer questions and explain what is happening. These things don't cost much, if anything and I've seen them work. Perhaps some people on the other side of the track could take a lesson.

I am sorry I made this so long but I just wish people would not focus so much on the racing and focus on selling tickets and bringing vitality to the sport again. It;s still a pretty damned exciting good thing we have here...and we should share it with others.

Amen John!!!!

I have been going to Kville since 1965 and have seen a lot of changes, both for the good and the bad. But at this present time my personal opinion is that the Kville staff is in need of either, an enema, or a major attitude adjustment. Years ago when you got to the track the crew and workers were excited about the evening and the racing that was about to take place. They thanked you for coming and would go out of thier way to make you feel welcome. Now it seems as though it pains them just to be there. It doesn't seem to matter if it is a weekly show or the nationals, the attitude of the crew and workers, and even the fairboard just plain sucks! They are in the mind set that we should be thankful to them that they are taking the time to put the show on for us. And the funny thing about all of this is that, the higher up the ladder you go, the worse it gets. It's time for a change!

Not afraid to sign my name: Wayne Redmond

Some good stuff here by brian, speedbump captrat and a few more. unhook the darn thing, and they track will stay longer, and get wider faster as.well.

Ham, you were doing fine until you brought you Grandma into it.

It would take a book to answer these questions and comments. I was not at the track this year, listened and watched what was available. So these are generic ideas, and certainly Schatz and his team are currently the class of the field, but-1. If anyone believes there is as much passing in the past either they are not paying attention or do not have a long enough history with the sport. 2. While sitting with a non-fan watching the prelims, he remarked "do they ever pass anyone", not a good way to build a new fan base. 3. Rather than go to k"ville this year I attended Indiana Sprint Week, more passing, more excitement and a better buy.In the end it all about the quality of the racing, I do not care who is dominating, but I do care when we think that a close and competitive race is simply about going fast and cars stretched out like a big parade. Most people understand the answer is to unhook the cars via tire and wing rules, the real problem is how to get it done. As to fuel stops. put the right tank on and get over it.

Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. 

Good points there John. Marketing is the key for the growth of the sport. The future of sprint car racing depends on parents taking their young kids to the races, and those kids could potentially become fans. Thats how it started for me. My father heard adds on the radio about a new local dirt track opening up and decided to take his boy. From that moment I was hooked. What is there to do for families?? Well nothing really!! I travel down alone and I tend sit around the house all week while I'm there, because really, how many times can you actually walk around the midway/track/pits. An outdoor water park in Knoxville would be killer. Having shuttles to malls, casinos, and other places of amusement in Des Moines. Opening up the pits like they do for the Late Model Nationals would be cool. Family ticket packages could be a thing to consider. Giveaways and promotions would be an idea, such as a free night in a suite for families. NASCAR night is another, by bringing in a couple more guys besides Kasey and Tony, have a fan meet and greet, along with a question and answer and autograph session. This is something they can raffle off, lets say to fans who pre-order their tickets. I know it may sound odd but my highlight of the week was being able to meet and speak a few sentences in Italian to Mario Andretti. I think alot of folks down in that part of Iowa are spoiled when it comes to racing. They don't know how good they got it.

Knoxville Natioanls attendee since '95
Favorite Tracks...River Cities, Knoxville, Cedar Lake
Favorite Drivers...S.Kinser, T.Kaeding, K.Madsen, S.Smith
Proud Canadian 

Attended my first Nationals in 1962. The grandstand was lousy and the seats felt like they were going to break under the weight of too many people. The track was not safe, a car went into the pits and hit a crewman that year. The cars were home made with all different types of engines. BUT the racing was great and they did not allow wings.

Now, the grandstands are first class, the track is the safest in the country, and everyone runs the same equipment. BUT the racing is not as exciting as it use to be?

I don't pretend to know how to fix things but what I do know is the best race of the week was Tuesday at Oskaloosa. For the past five years I have attended Indiana Sprintweek and to tell you the truth the races I look forward to next year are the Sprintweek races. I will be at Knoxville next year because any Sprint car race is better than none. I sure do wish the USAC race on Sunday had not been rained out. It would have been a good preview of what may be the future.

the racin aint broke. leave the rules alone so the lower budget teams can catch up and everything will be fine.

Man oh man, we still had 107 cars, passes for the lead in every major race, and bigger crowds on all 4 nights than 99.9% of the sprint car races in the country. Rain dampened alot of the excitement, and also the sense of no matter what, Schatz was going to win. Was it my best Nationals experience? No, but that was due to mother nature, not the fuel stop, the racing, or the Knoxville promoters.

Canucklehead,

Some of the things you've mentioned have been tried in some way or another. A couple of years ago, I did my Full Throttle Racing Show from the midway for two hours every afternoon of the Nationals. Anybody you could think of, from all the big name drivers to guys from the midwest, PA. and CA. were on the show, in front of the fans. We gave away stuff, drivers stayed around to sign autographs, folks asked questions live on the show. We had promoters and officials, from Knoxville and everywhere else, on the show, in front of the public. Wolfgang showed up to promote his book, Ralph Shaheen and other members of the National or local media came by to be a part of it. It was fun for the fans and we enjoyed bringing that show to them.

That said, it was a royal pain in the butt all week to deal with the Marketing Director at the track, for a number of reasons, logistically and otherwise. He even tried to pick an argument with me after the nightly press conference one night, emboldened by his friend Allie Cohol (I have witnesses to that encounter). The track did absolutely nothing to help promote the show and as a matter of fact, showed a lack of class by having its track announcer, with a loud mic, parade up and down the part of the midway where we were broadcasting promoting an internet show he was involved with. Because of these things and other issues, I declined to do the show the next year unless I was compensated (something I knew wasn't going to happen, to my relief). The next two years I did a daily broadcast from my studio until this year, when frankly, I lost interest in being a part of the Nationals in any kind of business capacity and just went as a fan.

The one thing I did was organize a Fan Forum at the Hall of Fame looking back on the '69 Nationals.We had great attendance and great guests, so we did do something for the fans in some capacity, at least, and we really enjoyed that because the Hall of Fame staff helped promote the event and made us feel welcome.

For the first time in ten years, I did not request Press Credentials or participate in any of those kind of activities. I had no interest in doing any of that this year and I'm not going to request anything in the future until some changes are made on that side of the track. I'm sure I'm not missed and I kind of enjoy experiencing the races from a fan's perspective again. I brought a different person to the races each night...people who have rarely or never attended races at Knoxville in recent years, to get their perspective of what they liked and didn't like about their experience.

I'm sure that what I've just written doesn't matter much to the people in charge over there and I doubt there will be any effect other than getting a couple of them ticked off at me, which is nothing unusual, but that's been my own personal experience and I thought it should be shared.

I don't know how much interest I have in attending many races at Knoxville anymore. I think that, overall, the on-track product is really pretty good but some of the key individuals dealing with the public leave much to be desired on the office side of the track. If I speak up about it, I wonder how many people just don't say anything and never go back.

Any of you folks who have been around for years remember Ray Grimes? "Win Friends and Influence Racing" was his motto and he still lives up to that today.

Ray's 82 years old and frail with Parkinson's, but he went to the staff at the Hall of Fame and asked if there was ANYTHING he could do for them during Nationals week. The staff set him up at a table to greet the fans who were coming to the second floor to watch the races. It was a small thing, but I'll guarantee that anyone who spoke with Ray for even a minute, came away being better for the experience.

A small gesture of kindness and helpfullness by both Ray and the Hall of Fame but a huge step in public relations for racing.

quit trying to save the car owners money by un hooking the cars. everytime they do that it cost them more money in the long run. if you want to watch cars un hooked go to a non wing show. leave the investment bankers in their offices banking instead of crunching numbers for the track trying to get a latemodel or modified support class. and leave the sprint car capital of the world the SPRINT CAR capital of the world.

Katich makes some good points, and a few I could debate. It is true that new things could, and should be tried in the future. BUT I believe that it is also true that the economy was the biggest factor in this down year. That does not mean that we should just fold our arms and wait for it to improve. We do need to try some new things.

FAST is a good example of a new thing that has gotten a lot of attention. While most (almost all) other tracks are down in both car counts and attendance, Attica & Fremont have held their own on both fronts, probably better than any other weekend Friday/Saturday 410 combo.

There are other such concepts somewhere out there, and they need to be seriously discussed.

9th Annual Northern Ohio Sprint Car Show
March 18-20, 2011
Featuring the FAST sprint cars
NOSCS Hall of Fame, and much more...
At the Tiffin Mall in Tiffin, Ohio
Official home of the Hoserville Ohio Benefit Auction

This guy is right on the button!

ALL BULL SHIT ASIDE!

Jason M., Danny L., Jason S., Craig D., Joey S., Stevie S., Steve K., Kraig K., Sammy S., Cody D., Jac H., Tim K., Dale B., Terry M., Tyler W., Brian B.

And Many More I did not mention.

Have the same money same tire's same engine's same chassis.

They don't have the (big guy) that is continuously working non stop on donny's car.

And they for DAMB SURE DON"T HAVE THE ABILITIES OF DONNY S.!

A Bad Day Of Sprint Car Racing Is 10 Times Better Than 
A Good Day At Work!

Wow i could not agree with this more. Sure a winged car looks good and goes faster but at the same time it is hit your mark racing. Nothing to hard about that. On the other hand though when you take off the wings and let the driver have more control of the car it makes for better racing hands down. I pit on a sprint car the we run winged and non-winged, and i must say the best nights of racing no matter how we finish and non-wing races. There is a Souther Cali track that has a tire and gasket rule that we race at and a lot of norther cali cars wont come and race the track but we do. To tell you the truth it does make for a better show and that track has a great car count every week. Just something kick around, sprint cars (winged or non-winged) still the best racing around.

If it does not make dollars, it does not make sense!

 same money same tire's same engine's same chassis????? Hmmmmm, Im not going to even repond to that (WOW), but no, One example, Shane Stewerts deal is not nearly close to what shitz has...

They don't have the (big guy) that is continuously working non stop on donny's car????? last I heard Scott knew what he was doing on Steves car..

And they for DAMB SURE DON"T HAVE THE ABILITIES OF DONNY S.?????Really not even the king of the outlaws, yeah I guess your right, Steve couldnt even make it into the top 5, yup he sucks, donny really is a better driver, but man it really is hard to see that forest with all those trees in the way...

HARD/NARROWER TIRES, LIMIT THE WING AND DRIVE THE CARS!!!!!

Oh yeah, anyone see the races at Riverside or Haubstdt? It was elbows up driving and shitz got lapped, need I say more??? if your still arguing then your just being hard headed about this

Knoxville promoters need to attend The World 100 @ Eldora and take some notes. The World 100 you pay $40.00 for the entire Friday and Saturday show. Twice as many cars in the pits, and a packed house every year. In my mind The Knoxville nats. is strung out over too many days. The 360 nats. has more cars and they get the show in 3nights. The Friday show at the 410 nats is milking the fans . It is a meaningless night of racing in my opinion. Yes they do the non qualifiers races but they really dont need this with the a,b,c,d,and e mains on saturday. The scrambles are not needed and the world challenge could be thrown into the program elsewhere. JMO.

Knoxville promoters and all sprint car race promoters for that matter, need to attend an AMA super-X event!

Or a monster truck show and figure out how these two sports put 50 to 75 thousand people in the stands!

A Bad Day Of Sprint Car Racing Is 10 Times Better Than 
A Good Day At Work!

What happend to Saldana and smith, they started in front of Schatz?

Your NOT going to tell me they did'nt have the same equipment as Schatz!

Last you heard Scott knew what he was doing on Steve's car.

That's my point, other teem's have what donny has.

BUT THEY CAN'T GET ER DONE!

A Bad Day Of Sprint Car Racing Is 10 Times Better Than 
A Good Day At Work!

No doubt about it Donny is on top of the sprint car world ,,,,you really can't argue with the 3 WoO Titles and 4 knoxville nats. in a row!

What happend to Saldana and smith, they started in front of Schatz? I thnk I just covered that...

Your NOT going to tell me they did'nt have the same equipment as Schatz! Ummm, well, for starters, joey runs a Mopar...

Last you heard Scott knew what he was doing on Steve's car. Thats B.S. and you know it, Scott and Steve know how to set up a car.

people have said that knoville has always been this way, no, not really. What Im saying is 900 horsepower and limited tire and wing on a wide fast race track and yes, cut back a bit on the qualifing days.

Yes, I also agree most sprint car racing could really use promotion help. Monster trucks do pretty damn well. One thing we all can agree on is we love sprint car racing and we want to see it successful.