Forum: Oklahomatidbits.com General Forum (go)
Moderators:  /  David Smith Jr

My whole point is that we are talking about WEEKLY racing. Weekly racing is for the low budget guys, if you have money then you can race ASCS if you want to draw. Money doesn't influence the draw, but in sprint cars when the track is fast it all depends on motor. When everyone is full throttle the fastest motor wins. If you read what I said earlier I stated that if the track at OKC was generally dry I would not care because its mostly driver. If I don't do well it's my fault. When the track is fast the driver doesn't really have much control. The reason I don't like the drawing is because when the home built motors start up front in the heat then they can get a good start and it's hard for the guys in the back to catch them. When the fast motors start up front, the guys in the back have no chance, and to the B they go.

I'm so glad you have this sponsorship thing figured out for me Mad Mike. ALL I need to do is find someone to buy my pit passes and gas up there and it might turn into something big. I bet that is really easy during a recession. I lost half of my sponsors this year due to the economy, and do you have ANY idea how much it is to run a sprint car? I am so lucky to have picked up a sponsor this week, and that means the world to me. A mini stock isn't anything when it comes to cost my friend. A tire for a sprint car is around $200, a lot of the fast guys put at least a new pair of back tires on once a night. The really fast guys go out with new tires every time.

Now lets go to the motors...$32,000 for a good store bought motor. And don't try to act like I can study up on this stuff and "build a motor just as good". A lot of these 5 and 10 hp tricks are learned by r and d on the dyno, besides I can't afford the new latest greatest msd or cam for the month.

Before the turn of the century people could win with less than great stuff. Dad could make parts instead of buying and go out and dominate. Now you just can't do that.

Like I said, if the track was dry often I wouldn't care, but OKC is hardly ever dry, especially in the heat races. You can say what you want about, "maybe if you can't afford it you should get out", or "quit whining lifes not fair," but until you truly understand the circumstances that some people have to race under due to the economy, and other forces beyond their control then in my opinion you have no idea. Try to put a sprint team together Big Mike and go out and compete.

With all due respect, maybe you should race in a more affordable class. I would give anything to be able to run a sprinter (think I would do well...lol) but there is no way I can afford it. If I really wanted to, I could buy me one and race but I know I would certainly not have the stuff to be competitve. That is why I race factory stock.

One other thing, I find it interesting that your separation point from low budget to high budget is at the ASCS level. Are you serious?? The only low budget racing I have ever heard of is slot cars.

Lastly, there are people out there who have an unlimited budget with little or no talent. There are cars that would be winning a fair share of races if it weren't stuck in the hands of someone without talent. Money does not win races by itself. It sure helps, but not just anyone can win with it.

Very well put Brandon. Weekly shows should have inverted starts based on point averages in order to somewhat level the playing field and make for a better program for the fans to watch.

Foster: This isn't about me, this is about weekly racing. A $32,000 motor should not be required to compete for championships. It should be about ingenuity, desire, and the understanding of a race car. It doesn't bother me that racers do spend that kind of money though, if you have it go for it. I just think that the handicap system is a good idea to even things out. They even use it up in PA with the 410's.

Well it appears you are stuck on last years drama with the minis I sponsored at LS. Though that was not the only cars my company ran last year at LS and in the North East.

By the way...........that mini #2 driven By Mr Casey Henning that your talking about is the 2008 Track Champion. Why would you, a hard core racer, belittle another racer, especially one who is the champion in his calss?

It seems you are a very angry racer and I hope for your sake it gets better financially. Though I would not place too much stock on the economy being good or bad. A recession is just the market place and the consumer "RE-SETTING" themselves. Leave it alone and the re-booting will prevail in six months or so. I know I have weathered seven of these bad boys, NONE as bad as the one i n 73 and 74. With the tinkering being done by the government, the recession may be prolonged.

My point is dont wait. If your going to race then get to it cause you will be that much farther ahead than if you drop your tools and play the blame game. If you lost a sponsor, go after another. Be creative in your search and you will be amazed at the business owners who would love to help you with a little cash.

As far as crate engines and tire cost, maybe you should research your target before launching a derogatory remark.

I was attempting to help a little by offering some small tid bit of advise in the financial sponsorship area. If a little money would have helped for gas and pit crew passes , then maybe you could have used the money you saved on your car. so on and so on.

No Mr. Cheese, I dont have this sponsorship thing figured out. Apparantly neither do you sir. I do, on the other hand, know a little about being a sponsor and was willing to share it with you.

I sponsor mods, sprits, minis, limiteds, and factory stocks in Oklahoma. Let me be clear here, I dont sponsor the car, I sponsor the driver. In most sponsorship deals its the Driver, not the team or the car that wins the sponsorship.

Be willing to put yourself out there with all the pros and cons. Dont be afraid to ask. Look them dead in the eye and tell them you are a racer and fill them in on what your team will do for their business.

I agree with Mr Foster, maybe you should find a less expensive ride untill your situation improves. Enjoy yourself and have as much fun as you possibly can. After all, how many folks get to do what you do?

Later

Mad Mike

Fight to win on the Track, not in the parking lot! I 
just love the " Ur # 1. wave " from fellow racers as 
we head home to our other lives !

Where did I belittle anyone? All I said was that sprint cars are more expensive than mini stocks. I didn't say anything to the point that anyone should be offended. I know how you are and what you do on here, so I'll just ignore your posts from here on out on this subject. It's funny how far you have veered from this original topic, instead of talking about drawing you completely attack me and what I do within racing, trying to get sponsorships, etc.

All I'm doing here is stating an opinion on the original subject and I get told that maybe I should go race a street stock. Again this isn't about me, this is about weekly racing and what it should be.

Just go get a sponsor huh. Please look at racing today. There are very few car owners and very few sponsors. Almost every team is a father and son afair. It's not like the old days Mike, there aren't any sponsors around. Especially with the oil field drying up. Believe me, I've made my rounds, and I know the other 6 family members that race sprints have too.

I don't have a problem w/ inverting the field, as long as you only invert the top 12. As long as you have 25+ cars in ea. class this isn't a problem because the slower guys tend to not qualify the majority of the time so the top 12 is very competitve w/ the lappers in the back.

In terms of money for a car, you get a set of rules, everyone has to play by them, as long as tech is good then if you can't afford to win in the class your in move down. If you find yourself in a stock lawnmower class then you are one broke mofo and probably should be worried more about what your going to eat tonight instead of taking that mower out for a few laps.

Damn now I am going to have to sell my mower.. LOL

I can see both sides of the argument. It sucks to have a fast car and get crashed every week trying toweed threw the slow cars to get to the front.

But I dont see the fun in winning from the front row every week

If you have enough cars for a B than that will weed out alot of the slower cars and they could try only transfering 10 from the heats and then 10 from the B. That would mover some of the slower cars to the rear even if just have 24 or so cars

If there are not enough cars for a B then take the top 2 or 3 from each heat and line them up by point average and every one else up by point average behined them That way you get the inverted field with out the real slow cars up front. That is the way Brill does it and it seems to work out pretty well the high point guys usualy start mid pack.

Most of the time It will not matter how you line them up the Cream will rise to the top you will see the same cars in the top 5 every week. the only exception is the Dry slick hold it on the bottom tracks where a slower car can start up front and hold on for a WIN

But what do I know I have spent most my time in a Ministock(4 banger). Just kiding Brandon

Perry Colby

Cheese,

What amount of money do you think should be spent on a championship motor? I'm really not trying to attack you here but do you think you might have this view because you can't afford a $32K motor? I certainly couldn't. Again, that is why I race in the class I do, because that is about the level I can afford. My wife will say otherwise but that's not the point. You say it should be ingenuity, desire, and the understanding of a race car. What about talent? You said your Pops had an advantage back in the day because he could do more with less due to his knack for outsmarting people. Well, maybe that was an unfair advantage to the guy who all he had was some money. Maybe your dad should of had to start in the back because he had an advantage. Obviously this would be silly but I am just trying to make a point. As long as people are following rules, there should be no handicap in my opinion. If you get smoked, get better, keep getting smoked, or do something else.

You Know you dont have to have a 32,000 dollar motor to win a championship, That is not required i have watched plenty of races at the sfs to know that you can take a piece of crap car and aslong as you have some talent you can make it go around the track. If you draw every week and you qualify good out of the heat than you could get a good starting postion for the A. If not than you go to the B, Its basically the same thing we do now only it wont be accorrding to Point average. It might just make also where people dont sandbag the first week, so they can set a low point average so they can start up front.

Just my thought

David Foley

David Foley

"Just let me make it to the Dirt Track.. Truck then u 
can break down!!!"

Some very interesting points, and very interesting opinions. I do know that some drivers make a living out of sandbagging to pick up a feature win here or there. The weekly points favor that particular scenario. The draw does make it easier for the driver who starts 15th or 16th every week to catch a break every now and then. So doesn't that benefit all the drivers? Either sandbag or draw can give a guy a chance at a win. You do have to spend money to win, but you can also have a guy with over 50 years experience build your motor and go and out blow everyone's doors off. If you want the good fuel get there early, go to the caged area and spend around 68$ and fill the car up for the night, it works for some of us. Get out of bed, work all day, save your money, buy good parts, and maybe things will work out for ya cheese.

OK normally I just set back and have fun and give Cheese a hard time in fun but I cannot sit back. Cheese is right in a lots of things. What do I know, hell I am just a fan, Hope I have been going to SFS sience 1971, I have also been a car owner, driver, pitcrew etc. and I have seen the budget of race car keep going up and up. You set rules abnd one guy will break the rules or add something to his motor or car to make it get a little more hp them the next guy will do the same. I know this happens all the time. I talk to a former car owner of a driver that still races at SFS and he told me a lot of things that they did illegal to get the hp and speed and it will always be that was until they tech more or bring back the engine claim rule. I tried FACTORY STOCK but 10000.00 for a motor, Do you think anyone would put that in a factory if they were going to get claimed. and I tried MIMI STOCK but 2500.00 for a good head plus all the other stuff. I think that was what Cheese was talking about. I do remember when Bruce Jennings back inthe mid-80'S was staying up with everybody. I remember when they had the enduro races and the rule was if you had 500.00 in a car, half of it better be in paint and those were fun and the average guy could afford to get out and have fun, Now everybay wants to spend like NASCAR. I will stop for now but I am sure I will get some flack. Just bring it.

Carl Edwards is the man!!!!

Mr. Cheese. I wish I could help every racer out there, who shows up to race. Heck, I would gladly send you a motor just to get you to see that its not only motor, but hard racing and skill that wins the day. I'm so sure you will disagree with that last statement, but try to see a different perspective from time to time and open up to a few creative ways of operating that you have yet to embrace. There is money out there to be had, trust me on that. You just have to kick it and search new hunting grounds. People are scared, not broke. Know the difference and you will get your motor.

I didn't veer off subject sir. You brought up the money and lack of sponsorship as part of the problem with the draw, if not a major point of contention concerning your view of the draw.

You say that in some cases its all motor and the money teams take all the wins. To quote you " the rich get richer and the poor get poorer". That you opposed the draw because on a tacky track you didn't have the motor and horsepower dyno tricks of a 32,000 dollar motor to catch up to a well funded team who drew a front row starting position.

If I read you correctly its about money and that the lack of it makes the draw unfair at times. Do I have it right?

If you feel I attacked you, well I didn't intent to. I made a point and posed a question within the context of the statement wherein you compared the price of a mini stock DOT tire to a Sprint tire. The impression I got from the way you stated it, was that the mini class wasn't as important and I as a car owner and sponsor of various mini racers didn't have a clue about your financial situation as a Sprint Car pilot/owner. That in my opinion was condescending, and we all know about opinions....right?

Well , good luck with all that. I'm done here on to another prospect.

MM

Fight to win on the Track, not in the parking lot! I 
just love the " Ur # 1. wave " from fellow racers as 
we head home to our other lives !

I agree with something on both sides but let me say something, and maybe we can all make sense of it. Cheese has a ton of talent and will win plenty of races but, if money is as big a problem with you as it is with me, try taking a year off to save up your money I have to do it about every 2 years trust me that it sucks but sometimes you just have to do what you have to do. Also come try Lawton 12 cars and dry slick... I like your chances. Chris on the part of stepping down to what you can afford think back a few years ago, would you like for me to have gotten back in a mini stock instead of takin a year off from the mod? Mike, I had won as many races and championships as anyone a few ago and I had to sit out because even in good times its hard to get help in any form financial or even labor. If my father in law wasn't one of the best people I've ever met I wouldn't have made it out last weekend because I didn't have the money to buy that drum of fuel. I really love that DISH NETWORK!!!

www.genesisshocks.com www.hypercoils.com If you need 
it I can get it!

CA...who was that taking pictures of your ride at LS last saturday?......oh and nice clean racing there as well.

MM

Fight to win on the Track, not in the parking lot! I 
just love the " Ur # 1. wave " from fellow racers as 
we head home to our other lives !

The thread seems to have gotten away from the topic of setting up lineups by draw. Racing is expensive no matter what you race. If you go into a machine shop to have a motor built for any class and ask how much, they will almost certainly ask you "how fast you wanna go?" It's obvious money makes a difference. All I'm saying is I want to be competitive so I will race in a class I can afford. I would be racing in mods right now with you CA if I could afford the equipment you have. Another thing you have on me is you have a ton of people around you that are very knowledgeable and skilled in building racecars. I am certainly lacking in this department. Therefore, it would cost me more because I would have to pay others for this stuff.

On another note, I could care less who is racing in my class. If you, your brother, Jerry Bruner, or any other great driver wants to come run in the factory stocks, I say come on. Competition is a good thing. Why the heck would I care if you went back to a mini stock?

My dad did start in the back and managed to win 6 races in a row, and never once complained about starting in the back. There were no complaints about the handicap then or now, so why change it.

I wasn't whining about the cost, all I am saying is that the handicap system was used for a reason. You can't sit there and tell me that $32,000 motors that cost $6,000 to rebuild every winter are good for the sport. There's a reason that 410's are not around here anymore and that is because they became too expensive. But, if you want to spend that much money THAT'S FINE. Go for it, you earned that money, it's America, you can spend it how you want. But there will not be enough cars to race if costs keep rising.

On the whole thing about moving down a class...There's a reason I race what I do. It's because dad has 30+ years of old parts laying around and I have a large family that will sell me there stuff cheap. That's the only reason I am racing. Could I afford a street stock? No, I couldn't because there's not an old car laying out back that I could put a roll cage in. I can't go to Lawton or anywhere else because I don't have a 2 barrell, I have injectors. Are 2 barrels cheaper? Maybe, but there isn't an intake, carb, front cover set-up, and oil pan in the shop. So that explains why I race what I do. On the year off thing. It would be a good idea, except for the fact that I have already basically taken 4 years off over my 6 year career.

At this stage of my life I'm out there to have fun. However, I really don't want this thread to be about me. I'm glad everyone has advice for me and they just want to help with their racing expertise, but I posted on here about drawing and whether it was good or bad. I put the reason that I disagree with it and I didn't expect people to tell me that I should try to attract sponsors...

Thanks for the kind words C.A.

In fifteen laps, in a fifteen car field a GOOD driver only has to pass an average of 1 car per lap to win. I recognize the fact that some laps you won't pass anyone, but some laps you'll get by a couple of guys. And if you're patient you'll outlast the first corner pile-up created by the "gotta win the 1st lap" guys. It's the "I gotta win the first lap" mentality that creates havoc. Patience has been known to win many a race.