Forum: Oklahomatidbits.com General Forum (go)
Moderators:  /  David Smith Jr

A race that the same potentual is Lucas Oil Speedway in May. In my Opinion it is alot nicer facility. Been tellin you people for the 3rd year now thats the track to go to. 75 lap Lucas Oil Late model race as well. Check it out at www.lucasoilspeedway.com

"Racing is an Addiction cured by Poverty"         
BOBCAT

Looking forward to the USMTS Mo-Kan region race at Lucus Oil Speedway but "a lot nicer" facility than TMS? That's a tall order there!

"I am not attacking the promoter personaly I am just stating facts and I am sure far more share my view than yours."

I don't believe that. I think the comments about this show are overwhelmingly more positive than negative.

The majority of the posts on every other board are positive and it's even more than 50/50 here. Even some of the folks doing the griping say, "I'll be back". It was cold -- plain and simple. The folks that braved that earned the right to complain if they want but the fact is 90% of the response has been POSITIVE not negtive.

Here's my theory. You don't hear from the folks that run good because they ain't complaining. Half the folks that don't run good ain't complaining either and they'll be back. Some of the other half that missed heats, had issues in tech, didn't run worth a flip or in general, just had bad nights and were freezing on top of it, are not happy about it. That's the way the business is.

Run that same race with today's weather and most of these negative comments we're reading about this show disappear.

Some thing else at play here is just a wee bit of jealousy. People who are real loyal to and have a good time at their home tracks probably don't like how much attention this show gets. That's OK -- nothing wrong with being a homer. But when you have 212 Mods and 26 of them go home with $750 or more vs. 15 with the winner getting 500, well, there's just no comparison. Everyone who pre-entered at least got their entry fee back and many more non-qualifiers even got more than that. 2-day $50 pit pass? That's more than fair these days too. Yea, it's a lot of cars and not a lot of time. Adjustments may be made in 2010 to help with what problems there were this year but you have to be ready to "get it" when you get your shot a show like this. The competition is serious. If that challenge isn't for you then so be it but no need to unfairly trash the show. So let's just have fun with this once-a-year, OK? (or of we're lucky, maybe twice!)

Also, before we endure more of the "They don't listen!", "They just want the money!", "They don't give a damn!", etc., etc., from the MINORITY of folks who were actually there and others who weren't even there this year yet feel the urge to pile on the negative mole hill when there is a positive, gigantic, mountain right next to it????,,,,

REMEMBER this was NEW dirt track manager Cameron Branch's first crack at the Texas World Dirt Track Championship and he brought it back with FLYING COLORS. He made some significant and helpful changes to this show this year so let's just see what happens next year before we assume anything. How does that sound?

Bring on 2010!!!

Captain Hook,

Jealousy! You must be drunk.

A facility like that with 200+ mods should be paying atleast 10,000.00 to win if not 20,000.00

I love tough competition. Thats why I go to big shows.

You sound like a typical politician. Debate the complaints I posted don't talk around them. My chief complaints are all warranted. Hell yes it was cold but that wasn't listed. I didn't complain about the pay down, number of cars, competition, or facility.

How about this Hookee. I am a business man. It can be detrimental for me to have a clouded view when making business decisions. If there is one thing I can't stand is for someone to grip without a basis or a better ideal atleast.

Heres what we should do. You think I am a homer and my opinion is the miniorty, or it was just too tough for me. (You don't know me very well.) I beleive I looked at the program objectively and what I have stated is fair and unbiased.

How about a gentleman's wager. I will bet you $1,000.00 that if this show is advertised under the same format, there

there won't be as many mods next year. I beleive and stand behind what I say. Do you!

If your willing to stand up how about a real name.

Thomas Tillison Jr.

I was not there and dont have a comment about that show in any way, but I love the real name part. All ways have and all ways will. Screen names are ok I guess as long as people dont hide behind them.

JIMMY MINTER 'AKA'dirtrack234                  
Yesterday 
is history, 
tomorrow is a mystery, and today is a gift. That is 
why they call it the present.

"Hook"s name is Bill Kitchen from Louisiana. He has been around this sport for along time and busts his butt to help promote modified racing on every racing message board that you can think of. He would do nothing to talk crap about any track but instead would try to find the positives in anything at any track. Instead of dwelling on the negative aspects, he does his best to put positive spins on things. Has since I have known him since the early 2000's and probably always will. Just the way he conducts business to help promote the sport.

He is one of the "insiders" to modified racing and could probably tell you the history of the named modified drivers around this part of the country. He shows no partiality to any race track as he does his best to help promote all tracks.

"Hook" is a great guy, please don't knock him.

David Smith Jr.
www.oklahomatidbits.com

I couldn't agree with you more.... we didnt make the A feature but we will definately be going back next year!!!

If some didnt like it then dont go back, Im sure it will still draw the best drivers in the country.

Honestly, I have not heard one (1) driver say they wont be back but have heard many say they will be back. I dont know if the show will attract as many cars next year or not, there are a lot of things to consider, like the price of fuel and the economy. I do believe the best in the country will be there over and over again to see how they stack up against one another before their respective series begins.

I hope whomever is complaining doesnt go back, let their ride sit in the comforts of their shop and wait another month to go race for 500.00 at their local track.

I have no idea who promoted the race but im sure there will be improvements where they are able, heck, I only wish it to be warmer and I was okay with the rest of the show for it went as listed on flier, how do you complain about that? JMO

Jayson Ellis

David,

You might need to read his response. Not all positive. Or do you mean he is positive to tracks and promoters not racers and owners. As far as I can see there wasn't any cusing or bashing directed torwards him and you get on here and make that post. If this site wasn't intended for people to post their opinion in a clean mannor then I must have misunderstood. If this is the way you will dictate what goes on here then you don't need worry about me posting Mr. Hitler.

I live in America where you can tell the truth without persecution. I stated facts about a show where in my opinion many of the drivers and owners didn't get treated the way we should have. If you don't like it take 2 Alkaseltzers and deal with it.

Thomas Tillison Jr.

DEAR 85-T TILLISON

I'M STILL TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT YOU MEAN BY SAYING SOME OWNERS AND DRIVERS WASN'T TREATED FAIRLY........

Did you pay your entry fee? Did you race a complete and full program on friday? Did you get to run a non qualifier on saturday? Did you get your payout when you were finished?

I'm just guessing here but I bet you have to answer yes to all them questions. What else do you expect? A free ride into the A feature? I really dont get your beef here, I have been to USMTS Shows that have several B Features and only the top 2 make it to the A feature. Would you have rather them ran 16 non qualifiers and only the winner get in?

Seriously, what is the mis-treatment your speaking of, because all the owners and drivers I have spoke to are ready for the next race there.

Jayson Ellis

WOW WHAT THE HOLY CACA!!!!

All that I stated was that he does his best to put positive spin on things and does his best not to dwell on the negatives as alot of people do. From what I gathered, he posted, you posted and then he responded and probably defensive. Then you posted defensive. Then posted about him "hiding behind a computer. I just wanted to let everybody know who he is and he is definately not hiding and is known by many people who try to keep up with the happenings of modified racing in Texas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Arkansas and USMTS.

I don't know where you got me being Hitler but your posts and others are just mere childs play to what a selected few post on here and it has been several months since I have used a delete button.

If I came across wrong then I humbly apologize but I don't see where anybody should feel slammed with what I posted. Just stating who "Hook" is and a little background on him.

Wow, I try to use racing to get away from the drama in my family and relative life and thus far this whole week even everything pertaining to racing has been filled with drama as well.

David Smith Jr.
www.oklahomatidbits.com

This year was my first time to compete there and the experience was great but I just dont feel like the little guy's got much of a chance we spent 2,000 buck's gettin ready and goin to the race and got to run a total of 27 laps of actual racing thats 75 bucks a lap . I know other people spent more than me and had the same outcome , I would just like to get a little more racin action for the money . I know I am expecting all of the u SUCK or get faster and you might make it further lol !

gotta agree with tilly I think the facility was a little understaffed the lines around that place were a lot longer than 15 minutes I even stayed there in a motorhome and lined up early for everything .

My son pretty much got trampled on tryin to get our lineups as 400 drivers all tried to lookat a 8*11sheet of paper I know it was the first guys first year to do this but the place has gotta be a little more user friendly for the racers as in lineups and tryin to guess when your race is up when your pitted on the I-35 service road ......

SHAWN E. JORSKI Modified 73

winners dont cry when they lose , they go back to the 
drawing board and come back for round 2 !

Jaydad, Tilly isn't the only one who is upset as I talked to a couple of drivers and read some drivers posts who were also upset and won't be back. Not everybody is going to be happy nor should people expect all people to be happy. There were quirks and some unorganization but that is expected anywhere I think.

Yes, Lucas Oil kinda does put Texas Motor Speedways dirt track to shame. Lucas Oil is a dirt trackers dirt track. Texas Motor Speedways serves a purpose to the dirt track community. Lucas Oil is one of the best dirt tracks that I have ever been to - and I have been to alot of them.

Not everybody is going to be satisfied with everything at all times. There will be upset people and there is nothing wrong with that.

David Smith Jr.
www.oklahomatidbits.com

To be fair, not everyone of those comments were directed just at Thomas because it wasn't just talking about what he said alone. There were a few gripes here and there and I thought that post responded to all of them as a whole. (I had already posted that somewhere else and sometimes, it's just easier to paste and copy. Sorry...)

What Mr.Tillison mainly said that I disagree with is the claim that more agreed with him that they wouldn't be back. That's simply not true. Most competitors have indicated they WILL BE back. But I won't take his $1000, because there will probably be SOME changes to the format -- I just don't know what they will be. He ignored this part of my post:

REMEMBER this was NEW dirt track manager Cameron Branch's first crack at the Texas World Dirt Track Championship and he brought it back with FLYING COLORS. He made some significant and helpful changes to this show this year so let's just see what happens next year before we assume anything. How does that sound?

Besides if he's a businessman he has my sympathies in today's environment. He's going to need that grand a whole lot more of them I'm afraid just to pay the tax bill that he wasn't supposed to have to pay according to Barrack-the-candidate. The economy will probably pay a bigger role than the format in the car count anyway and I said it before: 100 Mods, 60 Limiteds & 30 Lates would still sell tickets at TMS! Only a fool bets on a record car count two straight years. And, BTW, if 200 cars should pay more at TMS, what should 350 be paying at Boone?

Thanks for the defense though David and you other guys too....

You have my name.

Bill Kitchen

Ringgold-by gawd-Louisiana!

David,

I never said anyone was hiding. I just wanted his name if he was going to take the bet. The comment Hook is a great guy don't knock him ruffled my feathers a bit. There are hundreds of good guys on here including me and you don't tell people how to debate them as long as it is clean. The Hitler comment was just refering to a dictator. Don't take it personal.

Hook, Jaydad37,

I never complained about pay, facility, or competition. My chief complaints were severe understaffing, NO signage for regestration, pitpasses, transponders, pay, and the line ups posted on 11'/ 8" paper waist high. These things were a headache for drivers and owners trying to get lined up. I think the format should have been changed for Saturday because of the car count. With the car count there were over 150 mods that only raced in 2 races the whole weekend. Smallest heat was approx. 15cars 12 laps. Sat. qualifers had approx. 22 to 24 cars 15laps finish 1st or 2nd or load up. I don't think that is what the promoter, drivers, and owners had in mind for Saturday.

I simply posted my experiance as well as others and you guy couldn't handle it. Everything I have stated as fact is fact.

I think the promoter should have already sent out letters stating what problems there were and make a statement that they would be addressed next year.

Bottom line is to me. I love TMS. I have raced numerous races there on the 1.5 mile and now the dirt track. I just want to go race at a place like that not only because of the facility but the way I am treated by the promoter and staff as well.

I hope this race grows to be the biggest in the nation. It can only happen if the drivers, owners, and fans are put at the top of the priority list by the promoter and staff.

Thomas Tillison Jr.

First of all, Tillison ran 5th in his "B" main, the same place that Kelly Shyrock finished. He's not your run of the mill complainer. I was there, it was cold, the lines were extremely long for everything.

Thursday night i sat in line to hot lap for over an hour! Paid $50 to run twice. They made a killin off of Thursday!

First they told us "WE HAD" to get inspected, and if we didnt and made top 3, we would be DQ'd., so we waited in line for an hour and got up to the front, when all of a sudden, we had to go and sign up for our pitpass for Friday. The line there was ridicoulosy long, with only 2-3 people handling it. Waited another 30-45 minutes, and we were one of the first ones to get up there. Then waited another 30 mins. to get my car inspected because everyone in front of us was still in line! Then at 4:30 or 5:00, they said dont worry about it. They said "You guys know if your car is legal or not."

The track was a good track. We missed the setup evertime we went out, and yes the competition was brutally tough. Nobody likes a 3 day show, but with that kind of car count, you need it. I didnt like the fact that is was 10:30 when i ran my heat race. Didnt like the fact that the races went til 2am. And on top of it, the weather was not a helping factor either.

Should they have had a contigentency plan for this many cars? I dont know, i'm not a promoter. But if this happens again next year, they will not have a car count.

As for the Late Models, they really didnt need to be there.

If I offended anyone I apolgize for it....

I just like it when we all have the oppurtunity to go race at a venue such as TMS.

Im guessing that we should should contact the promoter with any and all suggestions for improvements to this show. Surely he will listen....

Thanks,

Jayson

Jayson Ellis

And yes I totally agree with you Tilly and Jeff, there were some problems there at the tracks (behind the scenes). Heck it looked like the chicken strip dinner went down one dollar since last year and by Gosh I think I chipped a tooth on a piece of chicken that just could have been preheated from last year.

I think the main complaint Friday night was the amount of hot laps the late models got and they didn't run until Saturday night. That was probably a total of 45 minutes there could have been racing for the mods and limiteds.

North Texas loves late models and always draw well at TMS. Them being there one night was just fine on this end.

I first noticed the two people working the pit trailer when I got there Friday. Thats a tough deal for not only the people going to the pits but those two who worked as well. How do you think them two felt handling all of that and the comments from people that you know were made.

Maybe this new person in charge will know the problems that there were and correct them. Is it going to be all peachey in 2010? Nope, no track and no race is perfect.

And Tilly, you have been on this board for a loooong time, you know I let alot of things slide. Sometimes I think maybe a little tooooo much.

David Smith Jr.
www.oklahomatidbits.com

The format seemed to be like 2 years ago. last years format worked well in my opinion but there was only 120 cars approx. When there is over 200 cars is seems to make sence to divide it into 2 100 car shows to where you have 10 heats then invert them and establish passing points and take the top 2 to the first nights A main. Last year we ran two heats the first nite {inverted second one} didnt make the A the first nite but started on the front of the B and was lucky enough to hold off some of the fast teams and made the show. heck we had 24 laps the first nite. Start times should of been moved up earlier as well to accomadate so many cars and cold weather. heck alot of people know we're not the fastest team out there and dont have near the $$$ some teams put in their cars but with the format last year we made the show and had close to 100 laps. But one thing that keeps us away was the return on you $$$ last year we spent $1200 and got $750 start money. But for around here you wont find tougher compitition if thats what your looking for

"Racing is an Addiction cured by Poverty"         
BOBCAT

hey now I can relate to that Hook. The cowtown show on valentine's day had a HUGE turnout. great racing - and was cold too (although not near as cold as the TMS race - after a few years ago experience i wont suffer that knowingly again lol).

But just as you say. Mountains of positives right? in all that great shit that happened at cowtown - their local sport mods were complaining because their race got cut 5 laps short on the first night. track did that to dodge a fine. as it was curfew. cowtown really didnt know they would get that many in ALL the classes. and the rawdons are good enough promoters - i would bet a ton they will never have that issue again, but just like this one hook....they ignore the good. trump the bad, they did the same thing on thr cowtown forum, was only a couple dumbasses saying to get rid of the open wheel cras (which were the main attraction).

How much would could a wouldchuck chuck if a 
wouldchuck could chuck would

Personally, I am grateful that the event even happened at all. The event had to take on budget cuts. I am assuming it is due to title sponsorship issues. In past events, the event was presented by Pro Cuts. Pro Cuts made budget cuts and could not be the title sponsor this year. Luck for us all, O'Reily Auto Parts saved the day for TMS with a title sponsorship. I do not know as fact, but I believe it was not the same package as what Pro Cuts may have spent because the advertising seemed to be different in some ways. TMS put on the World Dirt Track Championships under budget cuts. Those of you that have attended past World Dirt Track Championship events may have noticed some of the differences in how the show was put on. Yes, there was a new GM this year at the dirt track. But in my opinion the GM was trying to put on the same dirt track event with smaller funds that forced budget cuts, less general admission ticket money, no fan parking fee's << ( Something that we never had seen before. ) lowered concession stand prices and do it all with a pretty impressive purse pay out that was as good as any past events at TMS. All the while, they did this with a limited budget to handle it's biggest car count in the World Dirt Track Championships history. Cold weather hit the race weekend. This was not good as fan count was not even close to what organizers needed. Over head costs for TMS is very different compared to local raceways. So is it's profit margin goals. Believe me, if TMS does not make a certain profit percentage each year at the dirt track events. You can kiss good bye the chances of this event of ever happeneing again. The electric bill at TMS alone will make your ears curl I bet. So would the employee pay role. TMS has triple ( and likely even more ) the employee pay role to pay off for it's events. Do not be mistaken in the difficulties that TMS faced with this event. I think that TMS is very aware of it mistakes and high grade marks from this latest event they held. I truely believe that they will do what they can to adjust things so that it will not happen again. Bank on it. After all, last years complaints was fan parking fee's and food concession prices as the two biggest complaints.

Things could of been far worse when you realize what TMS. faced this year in a tough business economy. I for one was just happy to see the event be pulled off. TMS already cancelled it's 10 week dirt track series, possible tv coverage of that series and it's handsome purse pay out fund with series ending points pay out monies. TMS could have easily cancelled this event as well.

Doug Rollo