Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

The guys at the top of their game had mental toughness, laser like focus, and prepared like no other. Jordan, Tiger, Kobe, are great examples of this. 

Donny is the modern day Steve Kinser and is lucky enough to race against the greats of who we consider some of the best ever and the racers of today. And like everyone else has said a combo of age, motor change, mechanic change, family, not even counting the level of competition have affected performance. 

We're also in a period of time where some of the racers in the top levels have been racing since they were 5-6. which means the young guns are already more prepared than the racers were 20-30 years ago at the same age. 

Obviously many teams have great equipment, and why it's special when we see someone dominate like Kyle Larson, or the run that the KKR and Brad Sweet are having. 

Yup.  And to be clear, I started this "the decline of Donny Schatz" thread.  I'm not a "fan" of Donny Schatz.  However, if someone asked me, "who is the greatest driver in WoO history?", as much as I love the King, and as much as I respect what he did, I think what Donny has accomplished in his career, overshadows everyone else.  If I had to name the greatest Nascar driver of all time, it would not automatically be Petty because he won the most races.  If I had to name the greatest 410 winged sprint car driver, Kinser is an "easy" choice with 690 wins.  However, I think Donny's 300+ wins were tougher to get than Kinser's 690.  Just my opinion, and I know it's not necessarily a popular one.  

I disagree with you but I can't argue against it either. As sports go on over time, things inevitably change so it gets harder and harder to compare all time greats head to head. It gets to a point where you really can only do it by era and I think sprint car racing has gone past that threshold. I mean, we can argue that Kinser wasn't as great as Timmy Hinnershitz because Tommy raced cars that handled like garbage, track surfaces were mostly shit by today's standards & safety was absolutely no existent. No cages, no seat belts and helmets that did absolutely nothing. No firesuits...the list goes on. One thing is for sure, Donny is absolutely the best of his era. It's not even debatable. It always makes for interesting conversation though. 

True.  What makes it fun is there will never be a way to settle these disputes, so we get to debate and state our cases.  I just laugh when I see the cliche' Nascar greatest of all time lists.  Those dumb lists (IMO) are always 1. Richard Petty 2. Dale Sr.  3.  Jimmie Johnson, etc.   They need to step of the box and actually put a little thought into the list rather than just making popular votes by following the wins/championship lists.  Same thought I have with the WoO.  Kinser is the King of the Outlaws, and most people can make a very strong argument about how he is the greatest of all time and it is near impossible to argue.  

That said, it wouldn't be a realistic thought to believe that no one will ever have the same talented, complete career as Kinser.  But since he has 690 wins, which no one will ever possibly be able to attain in today's world, if that is the only stat we use to measure the greatest of all time, he could never be dethroned.  I just find that ridiculous. JMO  It doesn't necessarily mean that the guy is Schatz, but at some point in the next 50 years, no one can tell me that someone better won't come along even if he can't come close to 690 wins.  

Just my thoughts.  It's always a fun debate!

I don't disagree with anything you are saying, but back in the 80s and 90s you paid good money to go to a WoO race knowing darn well the outcome more often than not Steve Kinser spanking everyone.  As stated, there was less competition but that wasn't in his control.  Donny had a similar run but it was much shorter.  I think Donny's at the same stage Steve was toward the end where he's still competitive but wins are a lot fewer and come as a surprise.  I remember talking with Steve one time in his late prime and asked him how long he'd race for and he said until he had to spend his own money to do it, or it wasn't fun anymore, or when people were surprised when he won.  I thought that was awesome insight and I think he checked out because of the last reason given.