Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

SAMMY won recently in a wingless (!!!!) race at El Paso Speedway in Colorado & he's 67!

Granted, he was going against a bunch of part timers, but he's still way older than any of them. I've seen him win at that track a few years ago... ASCS 360s. It was slow & rubber down, I think Colorado soil is way too dry & sandy for sprint cars, & he won from the front..... BUT, he still beat a bunch of young whippersnappers

https://www.myracepass.com/events/442947/races

Sammy ,Red Farmer,Danny Smith. Loyd beckman all won races in their 60s but not in a WOO qual;ity field. Donny drives clean and Mcfadden,Sheldon.Macedo,Gravel arent afraid of contact which makes a difference. Many top atheletes dont retire in their prime.There will never be a big three like Steve Sammy and Doug in their prime and they all lost some of their edge to Father time or injuries.I read where after 40 not unusual to loss a % of your muscle and reflexes. Donny is still one of the best to wheel a sprint car but also is a business man which makes a difference also.

He's still one of the best to ever drive a Sprint and we're proud of him coming out of the upper Midwest.  He's still competitive and will continue to win races.  I'm thinking that his dominance ended a couple years ago and the competition have all upped their game during this time as well.  The thing I'm most familiar with is how time marches on.  None of the drivers I cheered for at my first race in 1960 are driving anymore, most are no longer with us.  Younger fans may not have experienced a changing of the guard in their lifetimes but it is always something in the back of my mind after seeing it play out many times over 63 years since I started paying attention to dirt track racing.

Stan Meissner

All true----however, most drivers don't win WoO championships at 54.  Steve and Sammy were exceptions to the rule, not the rule.   You cannot expect Donny to continue to dominate just because someone else did.  He's getting older, and like it or not, some of these young guns ARE complete athletes.  Lean, in shape, and on a very strict diet!  Their bodies are built for being elbows up for 30 laps with relatively little fatigue.  No matter what shape Schatz is in, he will not be in the same physical condition, have the same stamina, nor will he have the same reflexes, as guys in their 20's.  Sorry, but it's true. 

100% agree.  Rico is not the same guy as Schatz in his prime.  Last year proved that Ricky was not the only factor in the Donny Schatz success story.  Schatz being one of the best to ever strap into a car, in his prime, played a HUGE role in the success those 2 had together.  Now Donny is getting older, and having some limited success.  Rico on the other hand, had Ricky in 2022 and was average, at best.  (there is no argument against that---look at the stats)  He's having a very hot start to 2023, but we've seen him be streaky good before and that was without Ricky anywhere near him.  

The Ricky cheer squad was mysteriously quiet last year when Rico really didn't do much of anything.  Let's let the season play out.  If Rico wins 50% of the races he enters in 2023, then we'll talk.  

Also, I don't remember who said it, but can we quit the "Paul Silva makes Larson look good" BS?  You've got no clue if you think the reason Larson wins is because of Silva.  LMAO!!   The great drivers are 90% of the equation when reflecting on their success.  Guys like Larson would find a way to take any car (as proven in the backup 17 Stenhouse car) and make it 5-10 spots better than it is.  

Who was the crew chief on the car that won The Knoxville Nationals last year?

Schatz

Obviously nobody knows why drivers get slower when they get older but I don't think it's all about physical attributes.  I would guess on average most human beings are at their physical peak in their early to mid 20s, however there's rarely a proffesional driver that is considered the best in his class at that age (Jeff Gordon is the closest one I can think of).  My theory is the older a driver gets the harder time they have adapting to changes and by changes I mean changes in the race car.   Looking at NASCAR you can see when a new car is introduced it seems some of the drivers fall off.  In 2012 Tony Stewart won the NASCAR championship but a year later a new car was introduced and he was never close to contending for a championship again, I realize other stuff happened but he wasn't really competitive when he was racing and I did hear him say once in an interview that he just couldn't get the feel of the new car.  2 years ago Kevin Harvick won 10 races and was the most dominant driver out there, since the new car he's not near as competitive as he was before.  I've heard other stories too like Dale Earnhardt not even wanting to try things that other people were doing because he knew it wouldn't work, I also heard Mark Martin talking about when Ryan Newman was winning a bunch of poles he knew what he was doing but didn't like the way it drove.  It's harder to see these things in sprint car racing because changes are more gradual but this year for instance there's a new tire and Schatz is running worse than he has in a long time. Personally I don't think it's a coincidence.  I'm not sure why?  Maybe an older driver has more bad habits to break?  Maybe older drivers aren't as open minded?  I'm not sure why but that's just a pattern I've noticed.

I'm not going to completely discount your theory.  Most people don't like change.  However, all of the drivers you mentioned-----Gordon, Stewart, Harvick----not only age, but in every form of racing, their are young, hungry drivers taking those wins away from them.  It's not that their skills diminish and make them a shell of themselves.  It's that as they slightly lose those skills, young drivers with raw talent, conditioning, and quick reaction times are flooding the racing scene.  So Donny could have 90% of his skills remaining.  However, sprint car races are full of young drivers that still have 100% of theirs.  It's not so much that Donny lost everything.  He is just competing against a bunch of guys who haven't yet lost anything, and are in their primes.  

Sheldon, Gravel, Sweet, Macedo, Rico, Larson-----all fantastic drivers with good funding.  All in their absolute primes----the oldest being Brad Sweet at 37.  I'll take any of those guys in their prime over a mid-40's Donny Schatz.  Not that Schatz won't win many times yet.  He's just not going to keep up with that talent.  Then, one day the 6 drivers I mentioned will get into their mid-upper 40's, and the next group of young guns will take over.  It almost always happens.  Steve Kinser was a lot like Nolan Ryan.  Nolan Ryan is the reason all of the old-timers don't think there should be a pitch clock.  Nolan Ryan was a freak.  If you think you can treat every pitchers arm like Nolan Ryan treated his, you'll have a bunch of guys going for Tommy John's surgery.  If you think every driver can compete for decades because Steve Kinser did, you're going to be very dissapointed.  

There are two main reasons performance declines with age. One is loss of reaction time. The other is how close to the ragged edge they are willing to go driving a car into the corners. BTW, Ryan won 53% of his decisions. Carlton won 57% of his. Clemens won 66% of his. 

Within hearing distance of Tri City Speedway

To add another point to your comment stop and think of all the former WoO drivers still racing that have left the Outlaws in recent years. Up my way I can think of a few, Brooke Tatnell, Justin Henderson, the Madsens and most recently Kraig Kinser.  There was a youth movement the past decade or so with many drivers in their 40's and 50's no longer running with the Outlaws.  That seems to be the trend these days.  Teams looking for drivers are calling 18-25 year olds more often than guys in their 50's.  

Stan Meissner

I believe there's a third reason that folds right in with those two- concentration. One year when Lasoski won the Knoxville Nationals he talked about how hard he concentrated to hit the right sport in the corners just perfectly on every lap. My aging brain can't function like that anymore. I don't have the concentration skills that I used to have.

Truth----everyone needs to enjoy these drivers while they are dominate rather than look for excuses for average performance as they age.  It's very similar to the comments I've heard the past few days here in the midwest.  Everyone seems shocked that it was 80 degrees on Saturday, and then 35 on Sunday.  It's @#$ing April in the MIDWEST!!!!   It happens EVERY YEAR!!!!  Why do we act so surprised?  Kinser, a once dominant driver, fell off in his later years.  (yes, he held on longer than most)   Dude, a once dominant driver, fell off in his later years.  Sammy, once a dominant driver, fell off in his later years.  They all kept winning, but the wins came less and less frequently.  Now Donny, approaching his upper-40's, is beginning to win less and less often.  But for some reason, we completely forget that this is the normal process.  Instead, we pretend it's Ford or Ricky causing the issue, rather than the fact that his eyesight, reflexes, and overall concentration are not what they used to be just 5 short years ago.  How do I know?  I'm 49 and I cannot believe how much these things have been taken from me in just 4-6 years!!!  It's the normal aging process.  Give the guy a break.  

So nothing said about this guy after sweeping the weekend. I like him so I am happy. But what's the opinion, lucky weekend or are they making gains that should put him in the mix regularly? Post race interview suggested some gains in the Ford power. Truth or propaganda?

it took my about 10 highlight reals from the start of the season to learn to recognize the paint scheme since it was buried in the middle of the pack till  of late. 

Even though I may not know you, I 
care what most of you think!

That ford dominated Saturday at sharon!!!!

Didn't watch Attica because I don't do streaming but I was at Sharon and Donny sure didn't look washed up to me. He looked outstanding from the time they rolled it off the trailer. I didn't think for a minute that he'd lost anything. Their program just flat out sucked most of the time. I think when Donny is right, he's still the best driver on the tour and he showed it on Saturday because he smoked them all and it wasn't as if he wasn't challenged. He was multiple times but he flat out drove them. When Donny is right, there's no driver in my time who makes it look more effortless. He's exceptionally smooth. Much like Doug Wolfgang.

I never said Rico was gonna win 10 Knoxville Nationals or 10 WoO championships (or whatever numbers Donny put up)

I'm just saying he's done a LOT better with Warner

We'll never figure out which of the 3 variables that we're debating here is the main cause of Donny's "decline"... (age, Ford, Crew chief) We can't make him younger, only way to tell would be if he switched crew chiefs or engines, & neither of those is very likely.... so?????

Rico was there and so was Danny Dietrich so there was at least a couple non WoO heavy hitters there. 

Who is in the 19 car you mentioned? I'm drawing a blank.

Rico was there, Ricky too!!!!, led the majority of the Feature until the last lap. Easy to miss one person in a crowd but his car was on DV almost all night, name mentioned throughout the event and was standing in the podium for pictures. Finished 5th at Sharon.  I know you made a mistake and you said sorry and apologized. So you want mercy? Show some!

Even though I may not know you, I 
care what most of you think!