Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

The 44 car is fast. They just never seem to be around at the end. Going to knoxville will undoubtedly bring more cash to the team. Knoxville was hurting for cars probably worse than central pa. 

How will going to Knoxville bring the team more cash? Sponsors? If anything, I would think that relocating a team half way accross the country would be pretty costly. 

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As far as I now, only Pa. I've often wondered about the "why" part myself......

I'm pretty sure that the PA 358's predate the 360's as we know them today.  According to the WG website they added 358's in 1989, and I believe KARS was in existence before that.  I believe that the ASCS spec head that rules the roost in 360's was first cast in 1994.  So bascially the California "Open Head 360" and the 358's are the only surviving alternate "limited sprint" rules package since ASCS popped up.

Seems to me they should change to 360 rules to bring in more cars....

But i guess that would require Pa. guys to buy news stuff...oh well

A history lesson on why Central Pa limited sprints are 358 cubic inch.  The reason I heard was because the Super Sportsman at Silver Spring Speedway were 358   The Super Sportsman were drawing 65 or more cars a night for 24 spots.  Guys were getting sick of never making features. And a "low buck working mans" class of sprint cars were being talked about be created.  So just put an injection on Sportsman engine and now it is a sprint car engine.

But as always the real problem was not addressed,  the cost of a 410.  Oh, I think if my memory is correct isn't that issue still be discussed? Or did that issue get solved?  With the creation of "cheap" sprint car racing such as 360, 358, 305, LMFAO!!!

And this, of course, explains why with the exception of Tim Shaffer in 2010, the winners of the Knoxville Nationals since at least around 1990 have been regulars with the World of Outlaws and only race at Knoxville for the Outlaw shows.  And Shaffer was the All Star Champion in 2010.

Winning isn't the only thing these guys look at. Of course they ALL want to win this race more than anything but just making the A pays damn good. There's a lot of money to be made out there beyond the winners share. Every time you hit the track, there's decent money to be made so if you can time well and finish well all week plus put it in the A, you're going to have a pretty good weeks worth of earnings to show for it. Even though the WoO regulars have dominated, having laps there definitely helps.

Why would someone not  relocate to the Midwest if they are able to?   The payouts at Jackson alone are ridiculous.  Look at what they pay for just the 360 class.

1. 3000

2. 2000

3.  1500

4.  1000

IDK even what the 410 payouts are for there.

Knoxville is running I think 4K to win in their 410 class and 1500 for weekly 360s.   Honest question, what do most PA tracks pay?

I don't know the exact purse for each track but I do know that the purses out there pay a lot better back through the field than the purses in PA do. In my opinion that's a one of the big reasons why we're losing teams the way we are. A lot of guys are just going where the money is. I hope something changes soon or Central PA will no longer be a hot bed like it was. 

You made my point a lot better than I did. Usually when a team leaves Central PA, it's to go on the road with the ASCoC or the WoO so the 44 is doing something quite a bit different than the norm. When you really look at it, I think what they're doing is smart. PA has some great tradition and history but have any of the tracks around here really raised the bar? Not much. Port Royal and BAPS have thrown a lot of money and attention at upgrading their facilities and they've done a great job but does any driver really give a shit about a new picnic pavilion, new office building or new grandstands? Regardless of what they say on the mic in front of the crowd, they really don't. They care about their bottom line. Money talks and here in Posse land, we've been speaking the same language for about 30 years now and without all the rich car owners such as Hamilton, Harz, Stewart etc. to carry them, it's finally coming back to bite us in the ass.

As far ast the cost of the 410 goes, the top class is always going to cost what the top car owners are willing to pay.  Look at how much a 360 costs now, not much cheaper than a 410.  I know that rebuild costs are less, but if the 410's go away the rich teams will just start spending more on 360's and working them to death, and before you know it you will have 12 race rebuilds on 360's.  410's would last longer if you didn't twist them to death, but you won't win if you don't.

Its not ONLY seat team at Knoxville, obviously. WoO teams tend to have faster cars & better drivers. Given equal car & driver, don't you think team with more Knoxville experience has an advantage?

Last I knew Port and Lincoln paid $3200 to win a regular 410 show and the Grove paid $3600 plus a bonus depending on how far back you start. I don't know the rest of the payouts but you are right that our purses are top heavy. 1 thing about central PA though is that there are a ton of higher paying races. Teams can do like the 69 does and only run the bigger shows if they wish. There are probably 40+ 410 shows in central PA that pay at least 5G to win and a lot of them are unsanctioned. Port alone has 3 10G to win and 2 7G to win races on their schedule that are unsanctioned. 

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It would be great for the sport if one of the WOO teams didnt win the Nationals.Odds favor Outlaws as they are very good but imagine if a Knoxville regular could have everything line up to do it It almost happened with Brown and the McCarls,Dollansky,Sammy all know how to win.Sweet and JJs win were great as everyone likes new winners.Schatz is just so good there .and all the longer tracks.

I am pretty sure Port pays 3600 to win a regular show would guess Lincoln is the same. On top of more than half of Port's pay more. Acording to their schedule 6 pay 4000, 1 pays 5000, 1 pays 6000, two pay 7000, 1 pays 8000, 3 pay 10,000 1 pays 15,000, and one pays 52,000. Add all of Lincoln and the Groves extra purse races I am not sure anyone is going West for more money when they can run for that  money at home. Now if it is on someone's bucket list and they want to run Knoxville for a year it is their money and they can run anywhere they want. It is no ones business but theirs.

That's the winners share. Compare the purses from about 5th on back and you'll easily see where the big difference is. Central PA purses are notoriously front heavy. It may pay well to win but more times than not, it drops off a cliff as you go back through the field. I hate that we're losing another car (a part time car but one that ran a lot of races here over the years regardless) but financially, I'm pretty sure this makes perfect sense. He'll run for a lot more money through the summer months then the season out there ends just in time to come back to PA and run the big money races at the end of the year. 

Yeah you could do that if you're good enough. I don't think there's any other teams out there that could run a schedule like the 69K does and be so successful at it. Stevie and Rahmer did and their deal was kinda the same thing. As much as I hate to admit it, I think the 44 team is making a very smart decision providing their able to run well which I think they will. 

I'd love nothing more than to see Brownie or McCarl win the nationals. I still think Brownie will before it's all said and done. Terry can still get it done too but his window is closing fast.

Agreed, there's way more good paying 410 races in central PA than anywhere else in the country.

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