Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Has anyone suggested slowing these rockets down? Openings in the wrong places can be a problem at every track, just some are way more than others. Have these cars out done the safety features that are built into them? Track safety concerns need to be addressed, yes...

Back to my thoughts on slowing them down. Everyone involved knows the solution, but would just rather ignore it because they say it costs them to much. It would also cut the need for a $60k motor.  Huge cost savings that would trump the changes.

Smaller tires & wheels

Smaller wings with no offset

As long as cars can pass each other the fans will be happy.

It also helps put the car itself back into the safety zones they have been constructed for. 

They have always said that speed kills!

#1. I was not referring to Bryan Clauson. He was killed in a midget and we are talking about sprint cars. Josh Burton is whom I was referring to. He was killed at Bloomington, Indiana 1/4 mile about 6 years ago or so. 

#2. When death ocurred in non-wing cars in the early 80's, many people said gotta put wings on. Now that death is occurring with wings I say take 'em back off, non-wing cars are much safer than they used to be.

#3. These deaths only seem to be happening in the winged 410's so maybe slowing them down a little with smaller or no wings makes sense.

#4. I've been to many tracks that have safety issues. The problem is a combination of recognizing these issues and then someone being willing to spend the money to fix them. Some tracks I go to have obvious issues but have been lucky for so many years that nothing is done. That's the chance racers seeem to be willing to take. Most were brought up being shown pictures and video and reading stories about the great drivers of the past that raced without roll cages. It is engrained in them to accept the dangers of the sport  especially if they are competing with the safety luxury of wings, cages,  containment seats ect.

The problem is a direct result of the speed these cars are reaching today. Making frames more rigid may help but it's not the answer.  At these high speeds when it comes to any sort of direct contact the driver is still at the mercy of the inertia that has been achieved coming to an abrupt halt. That, coupled with the upright seated position of the driver creates a lethal combination. Removing the wings is not an answer, either. How many of the non wing sprint classes today are running the 900+ horsepower engines? Start putting those engines in the non wing cars and look out! The winged cars simply need to be slowed down. They are too damned fast.

      Food for thought > speed these cars are reaching these days......

Date of one lap track records:
Knoxville 2006
Williams Grove 2002
Eldora 2002
Selingsgrove 2011
Port Royal 2017
Husets 2002
BAPS- Apparantly an elusive, well kept secret on the internet.

Kramer Williamson had his accident at Lincoln a 1/3 of a mile track and that is not a high speed track.  It matters more on what angle you hit the wall or by another car more than how fast you are going when you hit the wall or by another car.  I have seen so many high speed crashes and think oh boy that is going to leave a mark and the driver pops out of the car in no time....no injuries only stiff and sore.  

If you think speed is what cause these types of situations I think you are wrong.  Brian Clauson was in a midget and was hit by another car while he was flipping.  Very sad situation but it was not the speed it was how he was hit. Yes, he was getting around that night but it was how he got hit that was the problem.....not the speed.

Jason Johnson was on a 1/3 of a mile track when disaster struck for him. Yes, they were getting around that track that night but again it was a 1/3 of a mile track not a big half mile. It is how he hit that matters more than at what speed he was going when he hit.

Williamsgrove is not a high speed track either.  Yes it is a paper clip and you do get up a lot of speed on the straits but you have to really slow down for the corners.  Unfortunately there have been multiple accidents at the Grove like this and I hate them each and every time.

We are very fortunate to have some of the best drivers in the country in PA.  We lost one the other night and we are hurting again on a 4 tenths of a mile track.  Everyone wants the pits outside so we have a great view of the track.  That is great but now we need to make sure the openings for said pit areas are safe for racing speeds.

All these situations are horrible that are mentioned here.  I hope we in the racing community never have to go through any of these again.

Let's go Sprint Car Racing!

Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!

I've been to Susky/Baps several times & never even noticed dangerous exit area. Thats not to say its not a hazard, just never occurred to me...

I have no brilliant ideas about track safety or car improvements, but whatever makes it safer, I'm all for it

Intrinsically dangerous sport, every time this happens it makes me wonder about going. 

National Open will be less fun, thinking about this, thats for sure

I've never been one to put too much stock in track records. Especially on the dirt tracks and when timing sprint cars. Some of the older track records are from back before the weight limit rule with driver onboard was established. And back when they were running rediculously low weights. I think the current weight rule was established in 2011. The other factor for track records is track conditions. Most records fall when conditions are absolutely perfect. Recentlly there have even been instances when a dozen cars or more cars have qualified under an old record. Bottom line is that all the cars are a hell of a lot faster than they were when tubing strength was last mandated.

Wouldn't makig frames more rigid transfer energy to the driver in the event of a sudden stop (like hitting a stationary object). In the 1980s, the NASCAR pavement Modifieds went through a bad time with losing a series of drivers (Richie Evans and Charlie Jarzombek being huge names who were killed racing). One of the problems was the energy was being transferred to the driver in crashes.

Depends on the structural design. Absorbing energy could easily be better designed in to the frame, but the downside is that the car might not be as readily repairable as it now. The frames seem to be able to take a pretty decent beating and a front end change or some minor repairs and back out on the track it goes. Maybe it's time to build sprint cars with the mentality of the Indy cars attention to safety. Let them absorb the energy and come apart more. The whole idea should be to protect the cage and driver. NASCAR has the same mindset as the sprint car folks. Make repairs and go back to racing. The Indy guys say to hell with repairs and saving the car, save the drivers.

Right on point!

     My point was that the cars have been this fast for many years. This didn't just sneak up on us. If the cars have been this fast for a while and the tracks have stayed pretty much the same, maybe someone needs to take a scientic approach to looking at car construction?

To the majority of the drivers, the danger is a major aspect in their desire to race. 

My God, blunt ends on walls injured and killed drivers back in the jalopy days when speeds were much, much slower. You don't see blunt ends on guard rails on the hyway do you? And speed limit is 55mph there.

Many drivers I follow on Twitter say there is no need for more bars or teathers on the cars but it is the tracks that need safety improvements. 

Steel city guy. I agree.

Years ago at lernerville I went into turn 3 on the top. My steering gear also broke, I had no steering. None one of you understand the feeling I had  as I approached a 6" steel pole. Sure, it had tractor tires to lessen the blow. Somehow, god willing, I got it slowed down that the only damage was a bent nerf bar, a bent up top wing and mounts. Hitting that tire at speed, may have been devastating. 

Everyone of us that has ever strapped in understands the dangers. We recognize them, but we don't run to officials saying we're not going to race. 2018 has taken 2 guys that I looked forward to seeing as the outlaws or all stars came east. They will be missed.

Places like Eldora, Knoxville, Williams Grove and many more. The speed of today's cars on big fast tracks is unbelievable . There really isn't a minor issue when you get up over a wheel or strike any solid object. Including the track surface itself. Guys driving today are in so much more physical shape than years past. The seats, helmets, Hans devices, if these items alone were not put in place I think you possibly could see many more serious injuries.  

Next week, drivers will show up at your favorite track, nobody will forget Gregg ! But, each of them will strap in and be running wide open into the corner. There won't be any hesitation. 

Of course they have. But there is a difference. Not many years ago the time trial lap times were faster than the racing lap times. Not so much any more. It's relayed many times now days that some of the fastest laps are being recorded during the actual racing. Car construction has been my main point. Either slow them down or build them to do what an Indy car is designed to do. Absorb crash energy and protect the cage. Think about this. Every major sanctioning body has had to step in and slow down their respective cars. There's a fine line between what is acceptable when it comes to speed and what isn't. Indy cars for example could be running 250+ mph at Indy, and NASCAR might well be running 225 mph at the super speedways. Bill Elliot ran a 212 mph way back in 1987.

Not meaning to be argumentative here, just pointing out some facts that might also make a difference.

If you want to make these cars safer.  You have to slow em down.  I know it's not the ever popular answer. 

The speed has overcome the safety of the wings. 

Someone said get rid of the wings. Witch I somewhat agree with or at least can see the argument. 

Usac at Knoxville the cars are only 1.5 sec faster than they were when they ran the nationals without wings. But the wing cars are like 4.5 secs faster than when they were introduced.  When Wolfgang ran the weikerts cars and the 8D cars. The times are similar to the 305s of today. 

The current design and materials used are not designed for these speeds we have today. 

But agree that the cars have been made. About as safe as possible. It's definitely time to look at the tracks more closely.

Jmo

Oswald you are so right.. I can not get this point across ,Baps has an oak tree at the end of the front stretch that should not be there.. I know a lot of drivers that have complained about that over the years.

OK, OK  I'm going to boycott susky. Actually I have been boycotting it since after their usac midget race. I am boycotting the track because its so darn dusty. I've been there times this year when I couldn't see the back stretch while sitting on the front stretch. There were times I was wandering if the drivers could even see. I also noticed some close calls going into turn one.

Not to be morbid, March of 2017 we lost David Steele in a sprint car with a wing, it was on a paved track, but he was a hell of a race car driver as well. Was not sure if his name had come up in this thread.

     I wonder if those drivers are just saying that on Twitter hoping someone will take note, or conveying their concerns to the tracks and the sanctioning bodies?