Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I agree the purse could he higher.  Because the CB makes a fortune for the week. I am all for free enterprise and I don't have a problem with the ticket prices it is a free country.  If I don't like the price of something I don't have to buy it or attend ( unless it's the government screwing us then we have no choice).

The problem I have is the Chili Bowl is bringing in 3 to 5 million for the week and the insurance coverage for the drivers is pathetic. Do we all remember Tim McCreadie and how much his wreck cost him. I know that accident insurance is reasonably priced and there is no excuse for a driver not to have it. Just call STIDA.  But back to my point there is no reason when a race brings in that kind of money that it can't have better coverage for the drivers. I suspect that $25000 is probably all their insurance will cover, if so that is a disgrace.  It is just not right that these tracks don't cover the drivers better.

A real disgusting situation is that NASCAR with there billions are the secondary provider for the drivers. The drivers have to carry primary insurance to race and be covered.  By the way former NASCAR driver Randy Lajoie told this to me in person at Attica.

Oh thats right we race 350 race cars at high speed indoors on dirt for 138 races over 5 days where drivers push and bang their machines to the front. My guess is there may be a little bit of dirt, fumes, and noise in the air.You start racing at four now instead of six. breaks are shorter. It was colder outside this year so maybe less venting from outdoors was done. Some may remember the days before the new vent system when the big doors were opened between races and the cold air rushed in.

"What incentive is there other than you think the people running the race are making too much money to increase the purse?".... how about fairness to the teams & sponsors spending a fortune & drivers risking their lives?

Yea, I know nobody's being forced to participate, they do it for fun, etc. But it seemed to me at my first CB that promoters are making lots of $$$$, they would still be if they shared a bit more

The problem with this logic, is the fact that about 75% of the people that run the chili bowl, have to pay to rent a car. That figure is excluding the ones that run their own cars, and those with the big money teams that probably don't rent. Point is, very few people at Chili Bowl are asked to drive, many of the cars are rentals. Every rental that I have ever inquired about, costs at least 3500 for the rental, plus you pay for tires and fuel, and don't ever even see the check. And people will always go for it because of the exposure you will receive if you run well. I would guess that the drivers that see money come from the chili bowl, are the Clauson stable, and the Kunz stable, (which, rumor has it that it takes a big number just to run a Kunz car for a year, whether if be sponsor money or personal money, but im guessing they still see a check come for their efforts), and people that own their own cars, plus maybe 20-30 other drivers in the field. Otherwise, people dont care about the purse because they likely do not get paid from the owners, as they have to pay to drive the car in the first place.

I don't disagree with you, of course everyone would love to be paid more! What do you think would be a fair amount to raise the pay for the drivers? 

Bingo!!   We have a winner!!!

New tire rule did not allow putting chemicals in tires. As a result, the track did not gloss over and take rubber, which consiquently led to better racing but more dust. 

All speculation about how much money the promoters may or may not be making on the Chili Bowl and Shootout is null and void until we know how much it costs to rent the Expo for 6-8 weeks and how much it costs to construct the track and clean the joint afterwards.  

Yes,  I am sure they are still making a lot of money and I am glad they are!    With the # of tracks, sanctioning bodies, race teams, etc going belly up in the last few years it is refreshing to know someone can still make a buck.      I wish they would lower the ticket prices a little but hard to make a good argument for that when they sell out 8 months in advance EVERY year.   

BTW, the last time I looked at a payout sheet was 18 years ago.....do they still pay $$$  for heat/qualfier/consi's?  

What would the results be if they mandated a harder compound narrower tire? 

No speculation needed, the Shootout pays for everything and the Chili Bowl is just gravy.  Dummy math says he makes 100k a day on pit passes and 100k for entry fees and that's just baseing on a car count of 1000 and say 3 members per car.  Doesnt include concessions or any fan attendance.    That's a cool 500k 

Well good for him,  but is it speculation or fact that the Shootout pays the rent and cleanup?     I have not seen hard #'s and really don't care, but I do believe that everyone over estimates the profit involved.    

I just think it is great that a promoter can actually MAKE a living these days.   They have worked hard and lost money for the first few years, and now we have one hell of a week in January.

Heres the thing, Until someone actually calls the expo center and asks them what it would cost to rent the place out for 6-8 weeks, no body will ever know what they actually make. You gotta think in grand scheme, how does the rental work? Does the Expo center rent out in one lump sum? Do do they rent the building for less but make the electricity, water, etc, bills the renters responsibility as well? Can you imagine what it costs to just light the place, not counting the 200 trailers that are plugged in for 7 days straight? The expo center needs to pay its janitorial staff, and other employees. I guessing Emmet needs to hire out the crew to do the dirt work, pays to get some of the stands in there. He has a water bill to pay for track prep, equipment rentals, he needs to pay racin boys to be there, mav tv to be there, etc etc. The list goes on and on here guys. Not to mention, I would hate to guess what the insurance costs, Im guessing it is probably a "High risk" situation from the fumes alone, I would say that number would be much much higher than one might think. Think about this too, the food stands are in there permanately, so I would think that they wouldn't even see any money from food sales.

Only then, can you think aboout how much it actually costs for a payout. I would imagine that everyone that races will get around 75-100 on saturday, and i would say at least that again in any main that they run on their qualifying night. So at 350 cars, and every single one of them getting 75 bucks when they run a feature, which would be twice for the week, would be $52,000. Thats only figuring 75 bucks a car, not the 10K winners prize, I would guess its likely 700 to start the A Main, so for sake of argument, lets say 10k to the winner, and 700 for 2nd to 24th, and take the 75 bucks for those 24 cars out of the equation. that brings us to $50,700. Plus a $26,800 A main purse on saturday, (Figuring on that because its likely more, i would guess the run down would be a bit better than 700 for 2nd - 24th). that totals $77500 total for the week, (Again, firguring sat A Main pays $10,000 to win, and 700 for 2nd-24th, every other feature on saturday, no matter of finishing position, and every feature tues through fri pays $75 for every spot, winner of A down to 10th in D) I would say realistically, its probably around 500-700 to win a qualifing night, and a bit better run down. Ahh, just for shits and giggles, Ill figure in 700 to win a qualifying feature and 200 for 2nd through 24th, adds another 21,200 to the total. Considering guys get nothing for heats, qualifiers, or VIROC. thats the $100,000 mark in purse. I would say were close to easily the $2M mark or above for the week on expenses.

Point being, I dont think these guys are becoming millionaires on this deal. Fact is, the first time I went was 4 years ago, and the car count is up about 75 cars now from what it was then, 4 years ago. 150 entree fee is 52500 for 350 cars. lets say 60K because late entry is 200.

I will not even go into pit passes and ticket prices. I know tickets sell out every year, so that should be a pretty cut and dry income. But if youve ever been to the chili bowl, you know that you see maybe 2000 people walking the pits on tuesday, and 50,000 on saturday, so thats harder to calcualte.

Sorry for the rant. I just think people need to see the bigger picture sometimes. Like I said, I would be willing to bet that it costs at least $2M, and maybe even closer to $3M, by the time everything is said and done and accounted for.

I agree with everything that you just said.    Until you see both sides of the ledger, it is impossible to understand how well the promoter is doing.   I also agree that there are cost burried in that no one understands.  If this was an absolute gold mind that made millions and millions of dollars others would try it.   The history of failed indoor races is much greater than the success stories.  

Finally, I would challenge the notion that the ShootOut pays for everything.   I would expect that the Shootout is just like any other Micro track and one car can run in mulitple classes.   A stock non-wing easily converts to a stock wing class.   I have also seen drivers put on a different wing on the same car to run th open class.   Things are not always as they seem. 

I have no idea, nobody let this first time attendee in on financial details!

As far as the Shootout paying for everything and the Chili Bowl being gravy, that's exactly what Lanny Ross Edwards told my brother.   My brother races at a stocker at Devils Bowl and talks to him regularly.   He also made the comment that the Chili Bowl is what keeps Devils Bowl open.  

I thought this thread was on the dust?

I heard Tony Stewart had a falling out and left the track prep crew from Friday on.  From my view (PPV) the track was noticiable better on tuesday to thursday, and not as good the last two nights.

...........

The hype for the chilli bowl is so high, there's almost no way to live up to it  (but most times it does).  Whatever they are doing, it's working as they have expanded to another night of racing.

Hopefully Tony Stewart returns to the track prep, or they get some other help.   And hopefully they can figure out the dust problem so people don't experience the chilli bowl flu

They better figure it. Out. Before an outside agency does it for them,  it could be considered a place of employment.  Imagine what OSHA. would do to the event.

Remember when the local fire dept came in with CO2 monitors and walked all over the place including the top of the T3 grandstands?    (rumor was that a neighbor across the street hated the event and was trying to get it shut down) 

I believe it was probably in 2001.    They almost shut the whole thing down, but the crew scrambled to construct air handling units out of plywood so that they could keep the doors open while racing and not violate noise regulations.     It was impressive how fast they rounded up the materials and made something that would work....maybe a total of 30-45 minutes down time and we were back to racing.  

I watched on MAVTV with the fellas and from the camera image, the air quality looked shitty enough to quell any interest I have in attending. The race doesn't pay very much to win...and I'd guess nearly every participant spends a lot more money than anyone wins.

So...it  will remain off my preferred list of ways to poison myself. 

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

I was worried about that, but other than a splitting headache on Day 2, felt fine. Fortunately the guy who sold me tix & sat next to me had some kind of dust masks that were treated to filter fumes. He shared them. Took care of headache by switching from Ibuprofen to Tylenol.

The racing was great!