Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Kudos to you and your team!!

Interesting thread and responses. I will say, however, I think the $55k for the motor is a little low for a 410. That's about what a competitive ascs 360 is going for these days. I helped purchase a couple "good" 410's this year. One used and one new. So I can tell you first hand $55k is low.... :-/

there re was a story floating around a few years back about Tim Crawley when he ran the ASCS tour for Mile Ward Racing out of Memphis.  They went to the great Northwest and won a couple "national" races (one was $10k to win) and a couple regional races in an 8 day period. Story goes they were in the hole about $5 grand when they got back to Memphis after winning about $20k in 8 days. I don't think sprintcar racing is a profitable business venture for anyone except the hired driver. 

305's are the herpes of sprint cars

You can get cars decently "cheap" if you're not looking for high end stuff. If you're just racing on a local level, dependent on where you race at, you can get wins with some old engines and parts. Big tracks like Knoxville, Eldora, Grove, Port you'd need a better motor at. But at most Ohio tracks and I'd assume the bullrings in Cali as well you can get by for a bit cheaper than the price you listed, especially if you're not spending to win and just to race.

Hell, down in Southern Ohio a driver in the OVSCA has a Race Ready 2015 GF1 with a minus 12 410 for $13.5K. Not saying you'd be on the podium every night but get a trailer and a truck and some friends to help and you could go out and race. You'd still be losing money because, well racing is a hobby and for 99% of racers do it because they love to race and not to make money. And I know Brian Smith has won with a 1997 minus 12 410 engine at Fremont in the past and has also was the SOD champion up in Michigan last year with the same motor. (Given the SOD was spec tires)

Quick correction on my post above. The price is listed as $16.5K not $13.5K. Anyways, my points are still valid I believe.

The escalating cost of sprint car racing had as much if not more to do with Bob Trostle leaving racing that did his age.  He was one of the last holdouts still using stock parts as late as early 1980s but finally to compete at the high level he was used to, he went to the expensive parts.  Think he built 501 sprint cars according to his great book.  The very very old adage says it all, "to make a small fortune in racing you have to start with a large fortune", everyone has heard that one.  I wonder who said that first?

Lawlessness + liberalism = HELL -  NYC, Detroit, Chicago, 
Seattle, LA  Who the H runs those cities. 

Good input from everyone! 

I put $55,000 for the engine cost because that is how much the engine was that I was involved in a few years ago and still very competitive today. I dont doubt the cost is higher now. 

Resale? If engine maintenance is kept up there are good resale dollars on engines. I have heard numbers anywhere from $40,000 to $50,000 on a good 410 from a reputable team that is say 10 nights from brand new and fresh win 0 nights on it. Engines with a few freshens on them a few years old $25,000 to $35,000 is not out of line.

Rollers, a lot of teams will pick the motor out of the car at the end of the year and sell a rolling chassis. I have seen that number anywhere from $8,000 to $14,000 for a roller depending on what all goes with it and how much it was used. 

I think we all know that so many of these guys spend their hard earned money to keep people like us entertained, I am for sure appreciative of their efforts! Sure we all know about Donny Schatz but I also enjoy going to the nationals talking to the E-main, D-main, C-main guys and hearing their stories of what they do, how they put their car on the race track, and where they are from, ect... That I would say is the highlight of my Knoxville trip every year.  If you havent listened to the Adam Cruea Open Red podcast from last week its worth a lisiten! http://woosprint.com/news/open-red-podcast/4701-open-red-ep-61-adam-cruea

In the early 80', I worked for a top 5 outlaw team. Back when you raced every where you could. The car owner had every cost figured, wages truck, motors, cars, parts, insurance. For the 1984 World of Outlaw season, and the other open shows for a total of 122 races. He was getting free chassis, and components from the car builder

. At the end of season he returned the cars and components that were salvageable.

He ran Shaver engines, a complete 410 with a aluminum block which were the hottest new thing was $15,500. He gave Shavers a $100,000.00 before the season started.He was to have 4 fresh motors at the end of the season, no matter how bad a blow up was.  And that included, all rebuilds for the year along with freight on the engines. We had 2 fresh engine with us at all times.And the third was in the car.We ran them no more then 8 shows.

He purchased a new 1 ton pickup every year $13,500. And we had a 32 foot bumper pull trailer. 1 complete car and one in the trailer complete.But not like today, it was in a rack and took a about a hour to get out.

We always had the latest equipment, and at least one spare. Steering, rear ends drive lines. This was before titanium.

At the time the outlaws, would give you 2 motel rooms every race night. And he would buy us 2 nights a week. If I remember right with a outlaw card,pit passes were $5 or $10. We had  1 full time employee besides myself.He paid 35%to the driver, 40% for a win. And would let us split 5% of a win. He did pay all of our taxes. And he paid me $300 a week and the other person $200, we did get paid year round, very unusual in the day.He did pay all of our  taxes.

This was when you had 4 tire companies, Hoosiers, Goodyear, Firestone, McCreary.And tires were either free or very cheap,if you would do the tire test.But costly when you had to buy, from the other companies.

The owner had the cost broke down over the season.  .For the 1984  season his gross after driver was $109,000.00. This included the outlaw tow money $200 a race night, and about $6000.00 point money..After the season the owner figured he lost $942.00 every time we unloaded the car.$115,000.00 for the season.

He would come unglued evert time some driver wanted to go race some track that paid $500 to win.

 We did not have the nicest truck or trailer. The owner gave us everything we needed to race.

This owner was a self made man, and his business, paid the bills.With the cost of things today and the increase in purses. A top 10 outlaw team would need close to $250,000.00 in outside money to stay on the road and race only half the races as wedid.

That's great! Thank you for sharing that, I'd bet most of the outlaw teams now would have a real eye opening experience if they were on the road back then!

Most would not be on the road back then. Wolfie, kinser, swindell and I think blaney was still there back then. Most ran for 2nd place money at best.

It is for sure mind boggling as to how expensive this sport is.

Like a few people have said, quite a few owners do this as a hobby.  We are very fortunate to be in business for 30 years making a living off of other people's "hobby."  Something we/I don't take for granted.

I fielded a modest car locally for 3-4 years.  It was mind boggling to see the sacrifices many of the the owners/drivers made to race.  When I realized that I was starting to make those same sacrifices and essentially rob my family's security, financial stability and future, I quickly got out. 

Other people's finances are none of my business, but I saw firsthand what it took to field a semi-competitive car, and I wanted nothing of it.

I'd recommend and put out a shameless plug for Hall of Famer Bobby Allen's interview from earlier this year on http://www.OpenWheel101.com He breaks down the expenses of a modern WoO team a few times throughout, especially in part two...it is enlightening!

If this post isn't results, stories or something c
constructive, it isn't me! 
@BillWMedia
www.OpenWheel101.com