Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

    Maybe I wasn't paying attention. When did they start building sprint cars so fragile that they couldn't handle a little "abuse" on the track?

That is the norm for the Knoxville Nationals everything on kill.  They have been doing that for many years.

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Ever since I saw Dollansky's engine blow several years ago when leading at Volusia, I've been amazed how hard these guys run their engines. I think it was a 30 lapper, & start of season. Can you imagine spending $40.000 or &60,000 on an engine for your car & have it crap out after 15 miles??!!

We'll never know, will we? Can't see anybody "taking it easy"  while leading Knoxville with Schatz in hot pursuit!

Perfect example is 1990.  Mark Kinser was leading when a yellow came out and his engine blew under that yellow.  That's what led to the Scruffy/Sammy duel at the end that year.  I remember Mark on the American Sports Cavalcade broadcast basically saying that it had been getting bad up to that point but he thought it might hold together until the yellow came out.  There wasn't any reason for Mark's engine to blow under those circumstances except that it was as hopped up as it could get...'cause it's Knoxville.

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As Shatz said, he saw all 4 wheels coming off the ground. Even if the motor wasn't built to kill specs. You Rev a motor then come back down hit the cushion, anything, that shock is immediately felt in the crank. Gravel was hoping it would last, he was well aware of who was behind him and he wasn't going to let up on the throttle so the engine wouldn't rev. Many guys go into knoxville with the lightest rotating mass they can put together. Some make it, some don't.  Gravel's 2017 knoxville motor didn't.  

As Shatz said, he saw all 4 wheels coming off the ground. Even if the motor wasn't built to kill specs. You Rev a motor then come back down hit the cushion, anything, that shock is immediately felt in the crank. Gravel was hoping it would last, he was well aware of who was behind him and he wasn't going to let up on the throttle so the engine wouldn't rev. Many guys go into knoxville with the lightest rotating mass they can put together. Some make it, some don't.  Gravel's 2017 knoxville motor didn't.  

Your right,when those tires leave the ground the motor is gonna rev to the hilt instantly when your standing on the loud pedal,an engine can't take much of that.

As long as she looks like a small block chevy, its pure bliss no matter the bill or the outcome

Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3 
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?

When the sponsor's checkbook became unlimited and the winner's share hit $150,000.

I agree wit your assessment of Gravel and I don't think he will change the way he drives. He's a sprint car driver who goes balls out for the entire race. Donny has been the best sprint driver for the past 12-15 years and he saves his car for the last 20-25 laps.

Here's a question for you, how many more Nationals would Karl Kinser won if given a red flag stop after 25 laps? 

does it cost more than $100 a lap to run the Knoxville Nationals?

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

if you take into consideration the teams that show up with all new equipment. yep. just use 75k as a example. that comes out to 1500 a lap and that just for the a saturday night.

Hmmm...not sure if in jest, but interesting question for sure.  Obviously it depends on if you finish (meaning it "cost" Gravel, well I guess CJB, waaayyyyy more than $100 per laps cause they blew an engine...but also lost a lot of "potential" $$$).  But assuming a car starts and finishes the A Main (I'm not counting "total laps" at Kville (i.e. not prelim, Hard Knox, etc. all together), just A Main or B Main or C Main laps on Saturday Night), all things considered it's probably close to a $100/lap.  Our team on a high banked 3/8-4/10 mile track has a cost of around $1k per "regular show" night to run, which figures to about $30-40 a lap depending. Cost goes up when you have All Stars or WoO in town bc of Qualifying, potential for having run B and A main (more laps on the motor, more "wide open" laps for qualifying, more fuel, etc.). 

Anyone have any further insight?  I bet $100+ / lap is acurrate if not low perhaps.  Good question (even if in jest)

But I thought chevs were so cheap???????

Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3 
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?

was always curious about this fabled "month of money"...perhaps more accurately defined as a "transfer of wealth"?

say you already have the equipment / rig and crew...would $100 a lap be a starting point to budget wear and tear for Kville next year as a team looks at getting "off the porch"?

granted the initial investment might be $300k of equipment / rig just to lift your leg in preparation for the first step...

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

I would tend to agree with you on this! What parts on a sprint car are they making for the nationals that cant handle 50 laps at Knoxville? 

Not saying there are not special parts made for the nationals because there for sure are! but if guys are on the edge of making parts that wont last 50 laps, WTF come on!

I disagree with your logic. That's $1500 per lap if the car was worth $75,000 at the start and $0 at the end. ($75,000 divided by 50 = $1500.)

I'd say the car is worth a lot more than $75,000 to start and worth more than $0 at the end.


A friend of mine who raced sprints on a 3/8 mile track figured it cost $1,000 a night to be at the track. That was 15 years ago. I wonder if the average isn't closer to $1500- $2000, and that's on a small track.

doubtful any more than he already won.  Don't recall Steve bing in contention for the win in 83 (Sammy), 85-86 (the Wolf), 89 (the Wolf), 90 (Allen) or many other years when he didn't win.

As I recall, they had a lot of Open Red's during Steve's career.  Outside of the year that Stevie Smith led a majority until it rained (BTW - Karl made no changes under Red) - the fastest car won pretty much every year except 1990 (Steve and Mark were both far superior to the field, but neither finished the race).

Hey Murph, see my post above.  Our team still uses $1k figure on what it costs us to run a night on a 3/8 high banked track...but in different parts of the country and with different items on ones "balance sheet" $1,500 - $2,00 is also a good figure to go by.