Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

My question about how TJ handled the issue leads to this...if drivers couldn't have trailers on the grounds for twenty-five years, and this is so important for the "show", how did the series thrive and grow and become such a big deal for (most) of that time?

Is this an issue that developed because drivers were allowed to have shirt trailers over just the last three years or so?

I'm not saying drivers/teams shouldn't be allowed to make some coin in addition to racing for the purse while going down the road. But, before DIRT came along, the WoO merchandise trailer was a main reason the series kept going along. Drivers could always sell their merchandise from their haulers. Now, with drivers having trailers, that cuts into much needed money for the series. Without the series, where are these guys going to race for at least 10 Grand a night (and more for the bigger races)? Some tracks need the WoO series to survive and have weekly shows. Without promoters, where would the sport be? You have to have somewhere to race and somebody to risk the purse and other expenses. So, when someone asks "what's a promoter ever given you", I hope you know the answer.

There have been between 22 and 26 teams that have followed the Outlaw tour all year. There has never been a time in the life of the WoO tour where that many teams competed all year. The top twenty get tow money and there appears to be a pretty good point fund at the end of the year. Point being, how bad can it be?

I can see where the top teams do well with merchandise but I wonder about the overall profit for the lesser known teams when they have to haul the trailer all around the country.

I don't mean to dismiss the contributions of any one group, whether it's drivers, promoters or series owners, but, if we learned anything from last year's split, isn't it that the series (and sometimes, the tracks) sells tickets, not individual drivers? That's really how it's always been, and likely, always will be.

John, I usually agree with you on most issues, but how can you say the TJ had a successful series, especially the last few years when the only constant he had was drama from people he either screwed or tried to screw.

TJ did less with more than any group I have ever seen.

The point where DIRT is now should have been reached with TJ 15 years ago.

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Duane Davis

Laser Engraving 
641-751-7777
101 N Center
Marshalltown, Iowa 

can they afford to ignore the FACT that WAY MORE tickets were sold this year than 2006, especially at our area tracks?

this is just another way to undermine the individual success of the drivers and convert the series to a commune.

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

I did not always respect many of TJs "operational" choices, yet after he was through lining his own pockets, and taking care of his marquee name, I'm sure he had the best interests of the series' flotsam/jetsam at heart!

Be that as it may, he did put on the shows and not until a select few became "bigger than the series" did discord manifest.

How many actually have units dedicated to the sale of merchandise, and where/who did it all start with?

I can't think of but MAYBE half a dozen drivers that could sell enough merchandise over the course of an entire season to finance their debit, let alone turn a profit. Racer X mave have a novel item, but if I had $6.37 for every hillbilly running around in a Kinser rag, I'd quit practicing law and concentrate on growing better wine grapes!

You've been to enough tracks and seen a decent cross-section of the t-shirt buying public to figure out who, a fair estimate of how much. The why is the easy part...$$$.

"As long as I can have a fast boat, a margarita 
machine and can light my hair on fire, I'll be just 
fine."

Jason Giambi

it'll be a nice kibbutz, near the shore where we can all live as one.

"As long as I can have a fast boat, a margarita 
machine and can light my hair on fire, I'll be just 
fine."

Jason Giambi

Duane, respectfully, I think you are missing my point. Where was the sport before the World of Outlaws cam einto existance? When you think of excellence over the past nearly thirty years in sprint car racing, don't you think of the World of Outlaws? Can you think of another sprint car series that has, then and now, paid a better purse? Ran at more tracks over and over? We all know TJ's faults and how those faults nearly ruined a great thing, but the fact that it endured means something was done right along the way. Why do you think over twenty teams are still racing with the tour?

What's wrong with RACING being the show? Do you really think merchandise trailers make the "atmosphere"? How did Steve Kinser and Sammy Swindell and Doug Wolfgang, ect. make do all those years with selling stuff from their haulers?

BRR, you made my point...more tickets were sold this year than last year, or probably the last several years. At Spencer, IA., when they asked how manu people were at a sprint car race for the first time, you'd be amazed at the acclaimation. Did they go because Kinser, Schatz, McCarl, ect. were there? Not neccessarily. They were there because the Dollanskys and the Clay Co. Fair Association did a wonderful job of promoting the event and selling the idea that this was the top level of the sport. The WoO series is synonomous with the best in sprint car racing. Properly promotd, THAT sells. Nobody is trying to undermine the success of th drivers. It's just that the whole is bigger than individual pieces.

I'm going to chime in here, although I admit to not having all of the facts...but it is a message board right? LOL I had the chance to work on Team Red Bulls merchandise hauler Monday after they ran in Kansas. The driver made a comment that NASCAR "forced" all of the drivers to sign over their rights to their merchandise....or else! He went on to say that it was a non-negotiable deal if you wanted to run in their series. So is DIRT using this as a model, if indeed that is true? They may be using this as leverage to say - keep your trailers & shirts, but we want 20%. Just thinking out loud here.

Perhaps a "licensing fee" is in order - ala NASCAR? After all DIRT does establish/provide the event and support infrastructure which allows the teams the opportunity to hawk their wares (not to mention race for a nice purse). An "Officially Licensed WoO Merchandise" tag or label (of course with a "licensing fee" may lend a bit of added "credibility" to the souvenir merchandise and increase the perceived value to the fan. I do believe that if you walk into any Wal-Mart in the country and look around you'll see T's and die-casts etc. that have the official NASCAR "stamp of approval". Just a thought that may appease both sides?

Phil Taylor

home-theater-systems-advice.com

the sanction fees are going up but the purse is not.as a matter of fact doing away with preliminary night shows and counting each night as a single show has dropped the purse. i hear dirt wants to make all the traveling crew members who now get in for free or for a reduced price pay full pit pass prices next year. that is so they can raise the sanction fees and not have the promotors complain too much.lol. fine way to treat the hand that feeds you. i also hear but do not know if it is true that tow money will drop next year too. the racers are not only the product but are customers as well as the money they bring into the back gate is usually kept by the promotor and the front gate money is used against the purse. it is funny that a meeting to try to find a way to cut costs ends up centering around cutting proceeds from the teams. if costs can not be easily cut, why not find a way to let the teams MAKE more money to pay the costs? i am pretty sure patty haudenchild would load up her motor home with stuff and sell it out of cardboard boxes before she would let DIRT see a dime. DIRT would be better off putting thier stuff in some of the teams t-shirt trailers and having them sell it for them. lol. as if enough people are not making enough money off these people as it is. i hear dirt has been going around to some of the lesser funded teams that are down in points (no not us yet.lol) and asking them to drop off so they won't have to pay them tow money. i said at the beginning of the year the worst thing the nst did for racing was fold after only one year and not try to keep going so that their competition could better things for ALL the teams. they could have shut down after two or three years making a deal with DIRT to keep for 5 years or so any deals DIRT with teams that were current at the time. the comptition between series for teams would have boosted the barganing power for all the teams. then the teams could come back together again with some power.

I would love to see Mctwo promote Osky and Bloomfield next year. Or atleast have Mctwo promote a midget show with the sprint invaders in Bloomfiield durning their fair show. As for refunds it took about 2 weeks for my to get back to me. I think Lori does a great job in juggling her kids and Terry's racing and getting refunds. Give her a break.

Uh oh, I smell something brewing here. Could it be another crappy split? DIRT needs to stop the financial bleeding, no question, but they don't need to do it on the backs of the best asset they have (the teams that support them) Schatz said something interesting in victory lane at the Open about being back at the Grove to make it 5 Opens if the direction of the sport was headed the right way. I thought it was an odd comment at the time and Schatz being Schatz, but was he taking about this nonsense?

I think the real scam here is that they said it was OK to have trailers for three years...the promoters (most) don't have a problem with it...but I see them finding out that some drivers are making some serious $$$ and they want a piece of the pie. Whether the former regime let them have trailers is irrelevant to the here and now. How could they possibly have 20 drivers t-shirts, hats, etc. with multiple colors or designs stocked into one trailer??? Will they have two or three trailers??? Will they have to approve of the artwork??? Will they actually buy the drivers t-shirts, or make the drivers buy them and turn the merchandise over to the WoO trailer? Why not just sell the WoO merchandise, cut some of the exorbitant salaries of their dead weight personnel, and let the drivers continue selling their own merchandise. I really think the World Racing Group (League) is stepping out of their boundaries and squarely on the drivers toes.

take away the interlopers and see if Dollansky and Clay Co. want to promote an event with the same vigor...tell me how it works out for them! promoting WOO events without the NST drivers has been tried and they suffered big time losses...and had it not been for a the back door deal to schedule the Grove Open for the bargain basement price, the calendar could have folded right back on itself. why all the back channel wheeling and dealing to put humpty dumpty back together last winter? the reprise of this sticking point speaks volumes of those in charge...and even more of those in denial in this very thread.

when it comes to marketing...Donny Schatz has a reputation...Steve Kinser has a legacy...even the casual fans know the difference.

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

The t-shirt deal seems squirrely to me also, other than some series like NASCAR and NHRA probably do get some sort of licensing fee. I don't blame the teams for fighting it one bit.

I've never been in love with the tire rule they came up with either. A spec tire just isn't needed. The one tire a night rule is great. They should have also just went to a smaller tire like the late models. They already have a hoop rule, all they had to do is just make it smaller. That way any manufacturer could participate as well. This tire will and has helped car counts however. 358 teams around here seeing so many underfunded teams winning at the Grove will undoubted move up. It also keeps the little guys digging. Cockpit adjuster and wing rules will do the same, which is their purpose. The big teams bitching about these rules aren't going to quit because of them, they'll just continue bitching…lol.

EVERY driver also repeatedly still complains of dirty air. If the wing they came up with in the wind tunnel addresses the situation and takes some more downforce away, killing the need for so much motor, than I'm all for it.

Anyone who thinks nothing needs to be done is full of crap however. If nothing is done engine rules WILL be the next step sure as can be. They already are. ASCS has already taken over 75% of the country.

If you're willing to fight it, you better be willing to give some of your own ideas on how to fix the situation. All I know is the late models took away a bunch of aero and tire and have flourished even without engine rules, and it is cheaper to run a big block modified than a small block modified because they have to run the small blocks on edge to win. Right now you still have to run a 410 on edge to win many nights. The more that changes the better off the sport will be. Let them run big blocks for all I care, but for God sake do something to help lower engine costs.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

...and had it not been for a back door deal that turned Kinser's head, there may not have been a WoO show for Craig "Isinglehandedlyspentallscottboydsmoney" D to promote.

The "reunion", the "reprisals"...humpty f - ing dumpty was pushed, and I'm sure there's a knappy headed Iowan on the other side of the wall with a shit eating grin while his "lovely" (eeegaaaads) bride is tallying merchandise sales.

Schatz is a relative "phenom" and has just begun to "market". Kinser has more than a single legacy dating back what...30 years plus, marketing/merchandising is but one.

I don't like or respect Kinser, but why should he have to share the fruits of his labor with some also ran in 20th place some 2,600 points (nothing personal Chad - but let's keep it real!) off the pace?

Parity is bullshit! It hasn't worked in MLB, the NFL, it failed on the altruistic kibbutz of Israel, it didn't work for Karl Marx, and and it won't work here either.

This is America...go forth and prosper! If you're not as prosperous as your neighbor, work harder, go back to school, apply yourself...

Wait, just call the ACLU and have them file suit against your neighbor. After all, his success should be shared, haven't you been a good neighbor, a friend, hell you picked up his newspapers when he went on vacation last summer....

Mikey, could you send me a rag or two on Canadian real estate?

"As long as I can have a fast boat, a margarita 
machine and can light my hair on fire, I'll be just 
fine."

Jason Giambi

"Appeasement" worked soooo well for Neville Chamberlain and the European community in the '20s and '30s...right up until the Nazis had occupied western Europe and were dropping rocket propelled bombs on cheery, old London.

How about a drivers union, collective bargaining...

"As long as I can have a fast boat, a margarita 
machine and can light my hair on fire, I'll be just 
fine."

Jason Giambi

Faster...you're scaring the hell out of me.

only a dumbass would enter into ANY form of revenue sharing with a partner so far in debt that they need multi-million $ infusions annually to cover operational shortfalls.

i guess we will see how the soap opera plays out.

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

Sounds awful similar to the grumblings of about (48) months ago, doesn't it? Here we go again...CZ

I am not sure the drivers have as much power as they may have had in 2005. I don't think many promoters want another split, they were the ones that really took it in the chin in 2006. It is pretty funny to read the few people still loyal to the NST "cause" take this incident and use it to bury DIRT. Good stuff, I missed it this year when all was good.