Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
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Perhaps our paths crossed at the weekly Jackson VFW races back in the 60's when I too first started to attend races.  As I sat in the stands Friday night I wondered what Vic, Willmar, Jack and the brothers Franzen with their little buddy, Ken, would say if they could see the amazing Motorplex now - the 540, 5, 98A and 22 could still wow me going deep into turn 1, only now without any frost boil to manuver.  APPLAUSE, APPLAUSE to what has happend at the Fairgrounds - I can only add 'amazing' to your quote regarding "what was accomplished".  However, having witnessed the "flight"  I kinda miss the 'bullseye' between 3 & 4 . . .

We always sat in the old open wooded section towards turn one. I sure know what the "bullseye" was for and I saw the "flight" also. Throw in to that mix the #25 Dawley, I'm sure he'd be shaking his head....he didn't say a lot.....there were a bunch of great drivers back in the old VFW days. And Jackson drew a heck of a crowd. I miss the old modified days, but that may have something to do with missing my younger days.

Lasoski (+3)

Kerry Madsen (+4)

Balog (+3)

Dobmeier (+6)

Heskin (+3)

McCarl (+6)

Tatnell (+7)

Garst (+1)

Phillips (+3)

Weave (+2)

And yes, I watched the race..Dollanksy was shot out of a cannon, no one was going to catch him. Kudos to him, hit the set up on the nose. The rest of the field did move around though. It wasn't phenomenal for the heats, but it came in for the feature, which is ultimately all that matters.

Thanks for doing what I didn't have time to   Glen Murra

Some people just cannot exercise common sense, let's try this again...

First off NO complaints about Jackson or Badlands facilites, if I was God and could make the perfect dirt track I couldnt do any better then TQ and CB, gorgeous facilites.

For opening night at a dirt track I thought track conditions were pretty good, both places did a good job with track prep.

Length of programs and start times WERE the issue.

My 2 favorite tracks of the 1990's yes Husets Speedway and Sunset Speedway ALWAYS started on time and ran a quick program. Probably had a big correlation with why those 2 tracks had the best crowds of that era.

Blazer and Elmore you have been going to races a long time around Jackson. How many times did Jackson or Fairmont start the heats at 9:05 in the '60's and '70's? Chuck Z you went to a ton of races at Husets through the years, how many times did Fred Buckmiller start the heat races at 9:05?

Isn't just a Jackson issue last year the NSL shows I attended at Husets had tons of screwing around and wasting time. The "Prelude to Knoxville" or whatever it was called last year at I-80 I watched at the 212 same thing, insanely long show for the amount of cars.

Chuck you are a nice guy and very dedicated to racing and I commend you for that. You said whats the advertised start time? Really? You wanna split hairs on this? Hell why not do time trials at 1030 and the first heat at 11 if there's no "advertised start time". Start time trials at 8:35 and the heats at 9:05 at Knoxville and see if the folks in Marion County are amused.

Badlands Saturday was also way too long. Badlands Sunday the heats were done at 7:55 and if not for the 360 crash fest feature would have been done at 9:30. It appears they figured out their issues in about 18 hours. I am still waiting for the NSL to get a handle on this.

Rather then argue with me on Hoseheads FIX THE GODDAMN PROBLEM! The NSL 360 shows at Rock Rapids started at decent time. Why can't that happen everywhere????

The worst president of my lifetime:
Ronald Reagan

I understand the frustration from the point of view that we all have our own expectations. Back in the day I'd say the races got started pretty promptly. But, track prep wasn't as big a deal and there were no time trials....going way back. As for being done early....I'm a poor one to ask about that. I hang out with a race bunch that understand it's a night out. Early or late makes no difference, but none of us prefers it ends too early. None of us poor the beer down, so that's no motivation to justify a fun late night. Plus, we used to get together over a few drinks, dance, play pool etc.... and close the bars so early to us doesn't matter. Down time at the track to us is talking racing...past and present. When we arrived at Jackson on Friday, I could tell by the amount of water that had been put on the track that hot laps were going to run late and probably more than one set of them. So I knew the night would be a bit late and accepted that. In that respect, I'd rather see a track with plenty of moisture vs one that will dry out before Feature time. Once the program did get going, I thought it ran fast and smooth. The food was fine, the prices fair and we enjoyed the entire night. My 10 year old granddaughter who witnessed her first ever sprint car race was just as bright eyed at the end of the night as she was at the beginning. I'd guess she inherited the family passion. But like I say....It's a night out for racing. I get plenty of early nights during the non racing season. I'm sure it will be earlier getting done in the coming races as they learn just how much water to put down in advance.

Ridiculously late nights at race tracks has been putting the future generation of race fans to sleep for years.   Worse yet is the families that get up and leave before you get to running features.   How do you expect to make the kids into sprint car fans if they don't actually see the A feature?

Its slowly killing off the sprint car fan base without most people even noticing.   

If what is supposed to be the most exciting race of the night hasn't been pushed onto the track by 10 pm the show needs to be moved along faster and the program needs to be shortened (in some cases less support classes) or started earlier.   Most heat races no matter what track you're talking about are usually very low passing high speed single file affairs.   8 lap 8 car heat races with no passing don't turn people into sprint car fans, there isn't enough cars or laps for there to be much action.

If you don't advertise a start time how in the heck do you expect people to know when to show up?   You just want them to come as soon as they get off work with the expectation that you're going to run races sometime yet that night???

Advertise a start time and then do it.   If you advertise 7:30 or 8:00 start time then you need to do the National Anthem at that time get the first heat race on the track.

This isn't aimed solely at BMS or Jackson/NSL.    Its a problem at nearly every track I've ever been to.   The only track that even seems to understand the concept of starting on time/getting done on time at all is Knoxville.   

I used to hate the idea of towns putting a "noise curfew" in place.   I'm starting to think that an 11 pm curfew (with fines for violations) is the only way that some tracks will ever try to get a show done at a decent time.

Here's what we had advertised for start times at Jackson Motorplex for our Friday night All Sprint Car events:

Hot Laps @ 7:30 with qualifying and racing to follow.

I will clarify this effective immediately:

Friday's with (410's)  -  NSL410's, NSL360's & IMCA 305's: Hot Laps @ 7:30PM - Time Trials @ 8:00pm - Racing @ 8:30pm.

Friday's without (410's) -  NSL360's, IMCA 305's & HRA Non Wings - Hot Laps @ 7:30pm - Racing @ 8:00pm.

Our goal is to complete our race program in 2 to 2-1/2 hours.

This Friday May 27th at Jackson Motorlplex will be NSL GoMUDDY.com Tri-State Region 360's competing in Double Features along with the IMCA 305's and HRA Non Wing Sprints...z

Thanks for the clarification.

Couple more questions if you don't mind.     

Is there a reason for starting so late?    

When you say the goal is to complete the program in 2-2.5 hrs does that include everything, Hot laps thru A main? or just the actual races?     If your just including from the heat races-A main in that number your goal to get done is too late.

2-2.5 hrs from 8:30 puts you at 10:30-11:00 as your goal.    A couple of wrecks later and you're racing til midnight while a bunch of families with kids have already left.

IMO, The goal to get done needs to be 10pm and you need to be close to achieving that goal somewhat regularly or the show needs to be tweeked.

Knoxville can do it, others can too, if they try.

I think I saw a reasoning for the late start time is to allow people to have time to get to the race track on time after work and to also help with track conditions. 

Kooks,

WhiskeyOutlaw hit the nail on the head. When we put this Friday night program together we knew what the issues were with getting a crowd on Friday nights. Most people still work a full shift on Fridays and if they feel they can't get to the track on time they simply stay home. In order to try an maximize the crowd we decided to start a little later to give these people AND racers time to get to the track.

The other reason is exactly what Whiskey stated. The dirt on this Jackson race track is terrible dirt. It is not "Knoxville" dirt. Not very many tracks are. It dries out quickly in the sun. And when you're running multiple sprint cars races, sprint cars will use up the track (3) times quicker than Modifieds, Stock cars, etc. We see this when ever we go do an NSL sprint race on a track where they don't run sprints weekly. They never put enough water in and on the track because they're not accustomed to prepping a track for sprint cars. When this track, (Jackson), dries out it gets very abrasive and eats tires quicker than Hot Rod Pattison eats hot dogs. Ask around, there's still some teams that won't come race here because of the history of dry track conditions and they can't afford the tire bill. We intend to change that.

Plans can always change but for now our plan is to start hot laps @ 7:30 every Friday night and be done around 10 to 10:30 and all of us at Jackson Motorplex will work hard to try and make that happen...z

Thanks for the reply and I understand most of what you're saying about start time vs track conditions and track surface.  My local track has too much sand in the surface, that track can go from mud to eating tires in no time.    I often wonder if less classes of cars would be better for those situations or run the features for support classes after the headline classes.

If someone lives far enough away that work hinders their getting there on time for 8pm racing (heat races) how do you think they feel about driving home after the show when it ends at midnight?

As a fan that lives about 1.5 hr from Jackson their history of late nights/early mornings has kept me from going to Jackson more often.

Thanks for everything you, Todd and everyone else are doing at Jackson and with the NSL.   I'm sure that both will only get better with time.

I actually prefer for a track to have a noise curfew.   I have attended several tracks with a curfew and amazing fact happens at these tracks.  THE PROGRAMS GET RUN IN A TIMELY FASHION  Hot laps are completed at time.  The national athem is sung the minute the advertised start time is reached.   The first heat is on the track before the singer puts down the microphone.  

All of these tracks enforce a single spin rule.  On the night, when a particular division wants to wreck more than race, they will stop the madness by telling the racers that if the caution flies one more time that the checker will fly as well.  Most of the time, the drivers get the idea and finish the race.   However, if they still dont have a clue, on the next yellow, the checker will also fly and the wreck fest is over. 

While I see the point in your post, if you want Badlands and Jackson to be compared to the NSL 360 show than make it fair and do it apples to apples.  That means you cannot evaluate "START TIMES" of a facility that has been running for a long time, that currently has the same promoter, 90% of the same staff, and has run this exact show with a facility and equipment that has been in place for years to 2 facilities that have new GM's, new structures, new employees, new scoring towers etc. 

If you want them to be like Rock Rapids, tell us how good or bad they are after the 2017 opener, when they have a season under their belts. 

It is pretty tough to "fix a problem" when they had no idea what problems they were going to have opening night.  For example, the staff at Badlands trasitioned to the MYRACEPASS software to handle their lineups.  There was user error.  Not anyones fault given that it was the first time anyone had used it.  You cannot simulate this until there is an actual race.

Do what?  The first time they used the software was during the first race and it was no ones fault?   Did you even believe that when you wrote it?

There should have been rehearsals on everything that happened that night.  Everything should have been practiced before opening night.  No excuses.

JonR,  just out of curiosity...  What industry do you work in?  It is obviously not the construction industry in South Dakota!  They have done 6+ million dollars worth of work on the facility this spring.  There was a ton of infrastructure work done that cannot be completed until the ground thaws.  Also note that the precipitation for the last 6 or 8 months is at record highs.  I'm sure everyone at and affiliated with BMS would have loved to "rehearse",  but Mother Nature threw a stick in the spokes.  The racing may have been late...  But it was badass, bottom line!!!. 99% of the bugs they encountered can be addressed! 

Rehears a race, your not really that stupid?

Probably can't "rehearse" a race but you could surely rehearse doing a set of lineups couldn't you?

From what I was told, the guys that were supposed to do the lineups at Huset's didn't have a clue and if someone from another track hadn't been there and helped them get it done the delay likely would have been a lot longer.

I'd say having that big of an event be your opening night was probably bad planning but Chuck wanted to make as big of splash as possible so it is what it was, a display of incompetence.   Hopefully they're fast learners.

Some comments make it sound like no one working at the track knew how a race night would go, did Chuck not hire a single person that had ever worked at Huset's in prior years?    

Someone should tell the "world class" flag man that "dropping the green flag" doesn't mean to literally drop it on the track.   I guess the former flag man had prior commitments on Saturday nights.

You are an idiot.

So it isn't at all possible to do a simulated lineup?