Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Whoa, it's a good thing you weren't spectating back in the 60's.  Today's Knoxville 305's turn laps faster than the legends of the sport could imagine was even possible.  You'd have gotten bored with them before the Beach Boys put out their first single and stopped going to races. 

350 blocks will live for many seasons even in stock 4 bolt main config. even at 8000 rpms as long as the power is kept below 600hp.  compression has a lot to do with life also and a 11 to 1 305 will last a long time. 

No problem with the racesaver idea on a 3/8 or shorter track.  They provide good racing.  If policed fairly they will cut costs.  They just arent for knoxville. 

The dry sump idea is better in the long run,  pick up a used steel or aluminum pan, fresh 3 stage pump and the other items you need and yes it will cost a little more than a wet sump but the reliabilty it adds will save money in the long run.  600.00 Canton wet sump pans are not cheap either. And a good wet sump pan costs that much.

The only thing I can come up with is let them use the 3 inch stroke 4 inch bore 350 blocks,  Flattop piston only,  and a lift/valve spring rule like the racesaver.  When they get teched check for cubes, piston dome, stack size, valve lift and spring tension.  If they wont have the springs to turn more than 7400 and the compression is around 11 to 1 they should be able to run 2 seasons with only a valve spring change.   When you try to run hardend cames, EDM lifters and lots of spring pressure the 305 valvetrain become very unreliable.   Its just to bad the racesaver wasnt 525 to 550 hp instead of 450 because it would work.  But they have to be teched fair.  

Fair teching at Knoxville seems to be a gray area at knoxville Even with 360's 

Oh and 4500.00 injectors dont belong on an entry level class,  sorry if you have spent the money already but one piece hilborns new or hand me down used ones should be on 305's

I tell you what what I would do if I was over this at Knoxville and racers kept coming to me wanting more and more for the 305's. I would say your right boys, your making too much power with your motors and turning too many rpm's, now your gonna run a cam with .450 lift and 2 inch air stacks, that will keep your rpm's down and make your engines last longer.Wouldn't that be smarter than the way they are wanting to go?

The 360 started out with 2 barrel carbs and steel wheels,look at them now about the only difference between 410 is 1.5 seconds and a smaller purse.The Racesaver is an alternative but the lure of KnoxVille is too much but they would be better to watch on a 1/4 or 3/8 track.Probably one of the favorite drivers is the Hasse girl and I know some people come and buy tickets to just see her.Kinda like Danica only she can win. 

I don't want to argue with anyone, but I want to speak from an a 305 owner/driver standpoint.  You say all these rules are "ruining" the class.  These parts are making it cost too much for a low budget class.  Let me list a few things and tell me what the fix is if we don't go the route that has been taken.

Blocks, GM 305 blocks were never intended for 7000+ RPM.  They are thin, core shift is a huge problem making cylinder walls even thinner.  So you go get a swap meet block for $100 hoping the cylinders will clean up and be usable.  Clean and get all machine work done, I will shoot low at $1000 (if you run drysump, more for drilling oil passage etc).  So you have $1100 in a block that is not made to do what you are doing with it.  This year, 2nd night out I cracked a cylinder wall on a fresh block.  Now I have to do it all again, IF I have another block.  So on the 3rd race, I am in $2200+ just in a block.  Could have got a Dart for that and had a GOOD block to start with.  How many 010 or bowtie 350 blocks can you get for that price?  So big bore short stroke sounds like a cheaper option now doesn't it?  

Heads, same deal.  GM 305 are prone to crack if you get them slightly overheated.  So now we are buying every head we can find just to have under the counter and the shop so we can replace when, not if, they crack.  Dart heads to save the day, buy once, as long as you don't throw a piston into them, I have never heard of a failure on one yet. ( I am sure there has been, but not frequent)

Cams, no brainer.  It's already been mentioned, they don't last.  Hardened/billet flat tappet cams, hardened lifters to go with them.  Cars aren't running the $200 cam out of Speedway.  They are running custom grind high dollar cams.  High dollar cams that will, WILL, burn lobes off and break in half.  I have 2 broken in half on my shelf right now.  So when it breaks, now valves hit pistons, bend rods, ruin heads, etc.  So that 1 part, that "cheaper" flat tappet cam just cost you an entire engine.  I will also mention that there are no good springs for flat tappet cams.  We were changing springs every 2-4 races depending on the set.  So a set of Tool Room roller springs for $550 that will last 20+ races or a set of Tool Room flat tappet for $230 that get changed every 4 races=$1150 in springs for 20 races.......thats twice as much as a roller set.

Drysumps, on a half mile are almost a necessity.  Some guys get them to last without, but I have yet had an engine last more than 2 races up there with wet sump.

Kinsler/Engler injection, I am 50/50 on that stuff.  I had a set of Engler from a previous 360, I didn't buy them for a 305, just what I had on the shelf when I built the 305.  So now I would have to go spend more money on a set of Hilborn because I can't use what I already own???  Money saving at its finest....

I am not saying to open the rules and have at it.  But saying these rules are for "money saving" is a joke.  I have spent more maintaining a 305 race to race than any 360 we have ever owned.  The difference is, we have had more FUN racing 305s than we did running 360.  We don't have a small fortune tied up in an engine, we don't feel like we have to buy new tires to keep up.  We were told at the last meeting that we are turning them too hard, slow them down and they will live longer.  Well, you get the 5 fastest cars to slow down, THEN I will.  But you can bet I won't be the first one to do it, I am not racing for 6th....and I don't think anyone else it either.

And to the guys that want us to move up to 360/410 and get rid of 305.  Message me, I am looking for sponsors for next year....

Thank you for taking the time for the explaination.

Whoa, it's a good thing you weren't spectating back in the 60's.  Today's Knoxville 305's turn laps faster than the legends of the sport could imagine was even possible.  You'd have gotten bored with them before the Beach Boys put out their first single and stopped going to races.