Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

The 305 class is going to lose a 360 and that's bad? 

I agree you can't tech every car every night. Hopefully this is the 1st time he has finished in the top 3 or 4. I would say good job to the tech officials for finding this and hopefully it will make them more aware of other violations of the rule book everyone follows. In the past we have raced at 34 and always felt when it came to tech they had done a good job of checking various items.

If you cheat but you can't win because they tech you ,how do you make this work out. Cheat so you can drop at the end of the race. That would be retarded. I must be missing something here  

You are saying this wouldn't make sense.  I agree but it just happened right? Only the driver must not of known right? But if you are racing with an illegal engine and the invert puts you on the pole then this is what would most likely happen right?  Like my car owner never said make sure you don't win? Honestly I think half the illegal engines are being raced because 5 he owner can't afford to keep up with the rules or a new tech tool catches the X car.  Are you still missing something?   Tech random cars because the cheaters still cost honest racers positions even if they aren't the winners.  Everything on here is so hard.......

To tech a engine is more work than most think.  Some the guys that do it are volanteer help.  The engines are hot, the top of engine is dirty and you do not want dirt in your engine.  It is starting to get late at night.  They can only reasonably tech just a few cars.  People cheat in every sport so it should not surprise anyone that someone cheats in sprint cars.  There are teams that if they run say a show that has just 1 race a year with no club affiliation and never check engine, they run a 430 inch engine.   Traction control is another issue.  There is a ad in Sprint and Midget magazine selling traction control units.  I would guess ad is about $300.00 a month.  He must sell them or he would not pay for ads.

The biggest problem I see in this particular event is that this was a "purpose built" cheater motor. Burlington does not allow dry sumps, aluminum heads, or even a gear drive. So if the only thing they found illegal was it pumped at 362, that means these guys built a 360 bottom end and put a 305 top end on it hoping that since it "looked" like a 305 they wouldn't get pumped. That to me is worse than "oops, we left our ASCS 360 in, tried to sneak one past ya".

Exactly.  And who just "forgets" what motor they have in??  If that thing pumped 362 how big do you think it really is?  Most 360s I've seen pumped usually check a bit lower.  Leakdown can do amazing things.   

 They made up the rulebook not me! All I'm really saying is don't have rules you can't or in this case won't go to ( all the trouble) to enforce. When I buy a racetrack/make and consistently add to a rulebook and then ignore said rulebook because it's not convenient for me or my track volunteers- then you guys can make me the bad guy on here. Agreed? 

Actually, to be fair and truthful this is not accurate. We ran at Burlington for a number of years and when we wanted to go race with The Sprint Invaders we could not afford to build an ASCS 360 engine at first, so we used the ASCS intake gaskets and our RHS 49cc cast iron heads (which is legal with The Invaders) and dropped them onto a 350 bottom end and had a wet sump 358 to run with the 360 club. We never had the dry sump system, ASCS heads or KSE water pump assembly, so truthfully you could not tell the difference between our 305 or our 360.  We have also never run a gear drive, all of our engines have a chain in them. Then we put a set of used World Product Sportsman heads onto our 305 bottom end and had an engine for each club, but it was very hard to tell them apart.  Of course we changed them every time we changed programs. 

We did this for 3 Invader shows at the end of 2011 and then added a KSE drive to the 360 for 2012, but still ran the wet sump, so it became more obvious being as the KSE system is not legal at Burlington. Now to be clear, I am not defending anyone here, but they could very easily have a 360 that could race with both clubs and no one would be the wiser. Obviously for whatever reason they did not bother to change it.

Never hit stationary objects!

With all that said,nobody forgets what engine they have in the car,it was not a mistake.

Which is why I stated that I was not defending anyone. I was merely pointing out that it is very possible given the clubs that run in the area that someone could have an engine that would not be that obvious to spot as a cheater, which I thought was implied by the post that I responded to.  The line that stated that it was a "purpose built motor" implies that it was done deliberately to cheat at Burlington, and that may not truthfully be the case.  Chase has run with The Invaders on more than one occasion. That engine, although not legal at Burlington may not have been the result of some diabolical plan to cheat anyone out of their $450.00 winnings. It may have just ended up that way. 

I am certain that they knew, and I am not condoning it.

Never hit stationary objects!

We do race against this team and he has greatly affected the points And purse money for some teams. With that being said I don't want them banned. I want them to learn from this huge mistake and continue racing the right way until they have earned back the trust of the guys and gals they race against. 

I would also like to thank everyone for the honest opinions and calm discussion on my thread. Have a great weekend everyone.

Tell me how much money you got and I'll tell you how 
fast you can go!