Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Why is qualifying so important with the WoO and other major series & tracks  (USAC, All Stars, PA .....). 

Why not start the A main by the heat race finish (excluding the Dash cars)?  It drives me nuts when a driver has to qualify late and posts a bad time.  Then they start at the back of the heat and have a strong run to finish 3rd or 4th.  When it's A main time, they have to start 24th and have no shot to win.  This is all due to a poor qualfying draw.

The B main starters are another area of frustration. The B main cars should start at the back of the A main.  Why should a B main car get his time back and start 11th when they didn't even transer in their heat? 

I believe some of the Late Model groups have these rules in place and they should be in place for sprint car racing.  It's called Sprint Car Racing...... not Sprint Car Qualfying.

JMO

Your right!!!

I've been to some of those Late Model races with that format and haven't seen much passing either.

I agree, B-main transfer cars should start at the rear.

I don't agree that heat race finish should line the cars up for the feature though (if the track is narrow for the first heat race and there is ZERO passing due to track conditions, yet the track widens out by the 4th heat race and allows a guy to race from 6th to 1st, it's no different than the penalty of drawing a bad # in qualifying to me).

IMO, there should be some purse changes to REWARD PASSING with $$$$$.  I could care less that the race pays $800 to start, change it to $400 and change winning to $7000 and give cars more $$$ for each position they gain during the race (I realize that this could mean that a guy finishing 3rd or 4th could earn more $$$ than a winner from the front row, but I'm there to see cars pass each other, not follow each other...

From the Late Model message boards I've visited, they aren't exactly enamored with the Late Model Formats either (they start straight up by qualifying time in the heats, so those bad time trial guys start clear in hte back of those and quick time starts on the pole.  At least the current WoO format promotes passing for the fast guys in the heats (if you don't finish 1st or 2nd in your heat, you're not in the dash (except for the fastest 2 cars unfortunately - which is what I would change, no free pass to the dash, only 1st and 2nd place, no fallback to time trial time).

Now, if the "powers that be" in sprint car racing would realize that fans want passing they'd go back to bigger inverts in the heats....

Yep. 

I would draw cars from a hat for heats.  Each car gets drawn randomly into two sets of heats.  Each car gets points for where they finish and how many cars they pass.  At the end of two sets of heats, top 8-12 cars go to a dash, the rest of the field is set.  Then, run the dash, give the same points as you did in the heats--finishing points and passing points.

Add em all up and there is your lineup.  No inverts.  No luck of the draw for track conditions.  You are likely going to run on a track that is tough to pass on in one heat and one that is easier to pass on in another heat.  (not always, but it will shake itself out pretty quickly)

Best part of it all---more racing for me!!!!  And, no more long waits--keep the heats coming!!

Not a bad idea at all.  No TT's, random draw for starting position and run two sets of 8 lap heat races (no dash) and your B-main (C's or D's if necessary).  Best points total from the two sets of heats starts heads up in the A-main.  B-main cars start 21, 22, 23 and 24 in the A.  Makes too much sense for the WoO to ever consider.  LOL!

and ASCS does something similar already and the drivers hate the format (the draw is still too big of a factor according to ALL of them - even those that win)

I am not sure which drivers you speak with but the ones I know actually LOVE the format.  They know that THEY directly affect their chances of winning by "racing" instead of qualifying.  I am by no means saying that every driver loves it, but I know many of the ASCS drivers and the ones I have spoken to love it.  Especially the guys without the HUGE budgets becasue they know that their racing ability, and not their pocket book, will decide their starting postions and finishes.

funny, the WINNER of both ASCS races this past weekend tweeted about not being able to control your own destiny due to the draw.

I have NEVER ran across a driver or team that preferred drawing over qualifying in any division (heck, the 360 and 305 drivers @ knoxville disliked it and love the fact that they time trial as part of hotlaps now (they all realize that luck of the draw plays some part, but a good car in the first group is gonna outqualify everyone in that group wheras drawing the #99 pill means you start last now matter how fast you are)).

IMO, a better rule to implement might be any engine changes after time trials results in starting last in the remainder of the events the rest of the night (your heat, Dash if you make it) and the B and A main (if you qualify)).

Another rule I'd rather see is a 1 tire per night rule.  Currently, your Right Rear tire only has to last a grand total of 17 laps before you get to change it for the feature.  Make it so you have to run the same tire for TT, heat, dash and the feature.  would make tire choice and tire management become a factor (and maybe the tires would last longer too).  Would make it a guessing game before time trials as to what track conditions would do later on (it;s wet and sloppy and someone chooses the 100's and is FAST in TT, but the track slicks off and becomes abrasive by feature time he's a non-factor but the guy that chose the 300's and was mid-pack in TT and has to start 15th in the feature may be a rocketship when track conditions change and win.

I am not here to argue with you but I have heard exactly the opposite from many ASCS drivers.  In fact, I was at several ASCS races last year and overheard drivers "ticked off" and drawing a good number.  They wanted to draw the high numbers so they could rack up the passing points.  It was typically the guys drawing the 2nd & 3rd positions in their heat races that were upset.  As both a former 410 owner, and driver, I can tell you that I would be in complete favor of no TT's (unless used at a few special events per year) and going to a random draw with points accumulated through double heats.  You would have a much better chance at "earning" your spot in the A-main and dialing the car as well.  Just one person's opinion.

The dirt track surface is constantly changing,it's way too inconsistant for time trials.I don't mind watching the cars time in,but too much emphasis is put on the times. 

Ted set up the format. Remember that the Outlaws usually had the best equipment so they tended to qualify quicker than locals. This format gives traveling Outlaws have a better chance to start near the front every night. We PAY to see the BEST drivers in the A Main competing for the win, dont' we?

There is no perfect format but this format is fair and the same format for every driver.

I never understood the whole change your Right rear you start at the back, but if you change a motor you dont get a penilty. You would think a new motor is more bentificial than a new tire. i'd like to see a rule that penilizes the guy who changed a motor.