Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
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Ask Frank

An absolute fact!

Here's my opinion...

Track was VERY similar to a night earlier this season when the weather was about the same.

That first night, there were 305, 360 and 410's there to race, so roughly the same car count.

Track and racing was EXCELLENT that night.

Only main difference between the regular show and the Outlaw show are the tire rules. Outlaws only have to run their tires for qualifying, their heat and the dash and can then change them for the feature (I personally would be AMAZED if any team ran anything harder than a 100 all night long).

On regular race nights, the teams have to run the same tire for qualifying, their heat and the feature, so some of the teams choose the 200 prior to qualifying.

It's not alwas track prep, sometimes it has to do with the tires being run on it.

Anyone that went down to the pits after the races saw that there was still moisture in the track.

Sure, watching rubber down racing sucks, but to think that it wouldn't have taken rubber if they ran before the 360's is crazy. They did that one year and the 410 feature sucked when it took rubber, the 360's came out and put on a GREAT SHOW afterward running multiple grooves.

Can't wait for this weekend, back to regular racing (which has been exciting all season long) at 1/2 the price and more exciting overall.

You nailed it.

Most of the tracks I've suffered sitting through rubber down WoO shows very very rarely have rubbered up tracks for their weekly shows.

Soft tires and hp make for smooth as glass tracks taking rubber.

Ask Frank

Exactly. There's no logical reason to run the support class first other than to sell more hotdogs."Because it's the main event" and "that's the way it's always been done " are not logical reasons. It's ass backwards to me. I've been to tracks that run support divisions first and the show drags out really late and you see people with children asleep leaving before the main even and I can't help but think how stupid and fan unfriendly it is to do it that way. Personally, I like the support divisions and usually stay to watch all of them but don't hold the fans hostage who are there to see the 410's.

A

I think everyone forgets that all that would have happened by running the 360's last would have been to prolong the night.

If Knoxville officials had been running the night, the races would have been completed by 10:30, instead it was 11:30.

360's did their hot laps/time trials first, then we waited around for the Outlaws to hot lap, then a break between hot laps and time trials.

360's ran their heats, then we waited for the first Oulaw heat to fire off, then a break between EVERY heat as they didn't push any cars until ALL cars from the heat prior were in the pits (this doesn't happen during local races).

Another long break between the heats and dash (around 20 minutes) - break during regular race nights is 8 minutes on the dot. Outlaws had to interview EACH AND EVERY SINGLE ONE of the drivers in the dash (no reason really since they drew an invert pill for position by the quick timer).

Drivers in the dash all had to get back across the track and into their cars to actually race the dash.

Another 5 minute break between the dash and B main (not sure why, no one in the dash was in the LCQ).

360's were lined up and pushed off once the Last Chance Showdown was complete (which would have just been another 12-15 minute break had they moved the 360 main to last).

Last of the Outlaw feature cars rolled to staging with 3 laps left in the 360 feature. They interviewed Garner after the win, but only for 3-4 minutes).

IMO, the Outlaw officials should be there for enforcement of rules, but let Knoxville run the races (they do a better job). Had they run the races all night long, it would have been 9:00 or 9:30 and a decision to re-work the track would have been OK by EVERYONE in the stands, instead it was 11:00 PM and a decision to rework the track would have made as many fans mad as it would have made happy.

I'm not arguing the point, that's just the way they run the shows at every track I attend. Knoxville is a rare destination for me but the few times I have been there they run the Outlaw Feature last like they do every week with the 410's. Perhaps some farming might have been in order. It always sux to see a track lock down for the big show. I understand your frustration.

Stan Meissner

I do not know if grandstand was told over PA, but hot laps and TT were not started on time because sun was so bright in west that for safety reasons theywere started a little later.

Sounds like an excuse, but doesn't hold water for me...sun has been there the last 3 weeks and the regulars haven't had any issues with the sun...

It still comes down to how the Outlaws run their show. Why didn't they hotlap before the 360's?

To me, it's about organization, and respect for the paying customer. By making the paying customers sit on their hands while they take a break is bad for business. Take all those breaks out of the night and maybe it's early enough to re-work the track (and encourage fans to buy t-shirts during the downtime). Instead, the night gets dragged out with breaks here and there and the feature doesn't finish until 11:30 (an hour later than it should have IMO)

As far as re-working the track goes, don't the Outlaw officials make that call? Obviously they didn't care about the paying fans seeing a good race or they would have made the call to re-work it. The fans knew the track was taking rubber, the Knoxville Officials knew the track was taking rubber, the drivers knew the track was taking rubber, the decision to not re-work the track is on the Outlaw Officials.

How many other rubber down tracks have the Outlaws ran on this year? Too many, only common thread is who makes the decision to re-work the track.

When have you seen the track reworked other than roll the top down at Knoxville ?

Here's a novel idea...on WoO nights there should be no support class. If you have a special event, the headliner class should be able to carry the show. If it can't, schedule something that will or just run your regular weekly program.

We know why the 360s were scheduled and it wasn't to fill the down time. It's called backgate promoting and greed because Knoxville didn't want to lose cars to a race at another track.

If I'm a paying customer, I feel I didn't get my money's worth. If I'm someone who may become a new fan, I wouldn't go back again.

Maybe that's why a WoO show at Knoxville is only selling about a third of the tickets it did fifteen years ago. The value just isn't there anymore.

Hey DC1! Vaca was okay, not much of a historian myself, but we did get to the Grove and Lincoln both, so that makes a racer happy!
Since I had extra time for DC now I gotta cram more time in on the road. Working GA/SC from now thru July 3rd.

So far this year been to 1 show at Knoxville, and not sure about Nats yet. FU's booked the Roof Garden the week after and that screws up my schedule, so we'll hafta see what happens.

Bye bye, Hardhat!

I have went to ALL the races for many, many years...

Up until about 4 years ago, I don't remember them EVER reworking the track unless weather (rain) occurred. However, about 4 years ago they bought that fancy Vermeer machine after they starting having rubber down racing more often, they used it to re-do the track corners during daytime shows of Nationals the last few years and re-did the track the one year when the summer Outlaw race was televised via tape delay (very similar weather conditions to last Saturday Night, but no delays and it was 9:30 or so when they re-worked the track).

Starting hotlaps later has happened in years past, but since Toby K. took over this year (and many times over the last couple of years), there have been zero delays due to the angle of the sun. The local drivers have dealt with it.

It's still about the paying customer (us in the stands), not having delays throughout the show would have afforded the opportunity to re-work the track prior to the feature. By having all the delays throughout the night, I'm sure the time (11:00 PM) played into the decision to NOT re-work the track.

It still comes down to organization of the nights events. Was the angle of the sun too bad (safety) for the Outlaws to hotlap prior to 360 Hotlap/time trials? Obviously not, or they wouldn't have had the 360's out there either.