Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Why does nobody see this? Racing has never been a fair sport. Speed has always cost money, and the people that have it are always going to spend it, no matter how many rules you make, they are going to spend it. You cannot change that. I hear people say they want to make it fair like the "old days". Wait, you mean the days when a single WoO driver won 40-50 races? Like when Ray Tilley won 100 races in a row in PA driving a Bud Grim Ford? The sport is so competitive right now, we bitch about the lack of passing because of the equality of the cars.

The bottom line is, no matter how many rules you make to stop it, the KKRs and TSRs are always going to be the cream of the crop. Always have been, and always will. That has not changed throughout the last 50 years of racing. What makes it a thrill for everyone involved are those memorable times when the little guy BEATS the top tier team. We had a mild example of that just happen a few weeks ago in Iowa....

I dont see 90 % of world of outlaws or other major series teams running this crate/off the shelve built motor the big dogs well still be running what they run

the idea behind this program is to come up with a economical package for the start up or local teams that can't afford a 40.000 8 night motor + refresh three times a summer or buy a used big dog motor that is wore out and is not as reliable as it should be. Schatz said it in the press conference well it set a record at the grove (NO) well it win the nationals (NO) would it at least be some what competitive and reliableat a economical price (YES) that is the spirit of the program to help the lower/mid tier driver owner with out a huge budget to be competitive weekin weekout.

this motor is not really comparable to the big 410 outlaw motor it was never intended to be itis close but you know what they say about close. but it is fairly competitive so with a little luck a low /mid buck guy could get lucky when the planets align. yeh schatz won with it in the car but I bet he had all brand new stuff strapped on was not in 2 year old chassis with last weeks used tires like alot of local guys have to use

the big budget teams well always have better equipment no doubt about it

I cant say im for the spec 410-430-whaterver? I believe the mill is in trial phases and its longivity is yet to be determined? so it costs approximatly $20k so, do you need two of them? I honestly, am old school, mechanical injection is what made sprint motors interesting to me , magnetos are part of the beast ! ,dry sump? hell ya! batteries? - I mean, batteries? for what? your tearoff machine? maybe your radio? -maybe your cheap guages,tach? but for ignition? ,, naww!! , I like Knox's trial 440 , just let the underdogs have some breathing room thats all the intent was for.. . the ASCS 360 has gotten out of hand , and if you dont agree, try build one, a competitive one .. now race for less dough and youll soon understand its not acceptable either Agreed the 410 racing is spyrolling out of control, with no destination remotly realistic, I agree with (understand)most of the posts and see the good and bad in previous posts, one point I like to throw on the table is so, we dont want a Nascar type mill? then why are we (lobby)trying, to restrict the injection, isnt that the resrictor plate type handicap to keep all competitors choked down to a manageable requirement ? god only knows where (410's ) are headed , I just pray it evolves into something I can tolerate and love .

I guess I just do not understand. Why spend $20,000 on a 750 horse motor, when you can buy complete -12 motors for 10,000 all day long that can make up to 790-800 horse. And then at some point, if you want, you can upgrade that motor to a better one.

"Sprint Cars are made to go fast.  The faster you go, 
the better they feel." - Hoyett Hodnett

it is apparent that you only understand what you like. the 360 shows are just as good as any 410 show and at half the engine price. so. maybe you should wake up here and not be so one sides.

ascs 360 shows are just as good as any 410 show out there. in imo or the 360 show at little rock, or the 360 nationals at skagit speedway, or at chico or at lincoln or anywhere else nationwide for that matter. think outside the box here...there is life after 410's, think about it for a miniscule of a second...

Ascot was the greatest of all time..

West Capital wasn't half bad either..

Life is good...

Crate style engines get cheated up all of the time. I just don't think they are the answer.

Quality parts for these 410s cost a lot of money. Engine builders buy these parts for insurance against engine failures which ultimately cost racers big money. Think of the following parts as "investment parts". These are non wear items that should last many years:

• Block, Heads, injectors, crank, rods, mag, oil pump, oil pan, oil tank, plumbing, push rods, rocker arms and lifters

Soft parts or wear items are as follows:

• pistons, rings, bearings, gaskets, valve springs, valves and retainers

lets look at the extreme end of the ASCS 360. We can build a 360 that makes 700hp+ that will turn 9000 rpm and only need valve springs changed after 12 shows and a full rebuild after 20-24 races. The springs cost $600 and the rebuild is $7500. If this type of maintanance schedule would work on a 410, then we might be on to something.

Lets look at the crate engine. The long block seems to be a "throw-away" peice. Add in the cost of hiring an outside engine builder to "cheat it up" and give the racer a phycological advantage. Cheating WILL be the norm because "everyone else is doing it". By the time it is all said and done, that $15,000 engine will cost $30,000 with an used resale value of $5,000.

The maintanance cost of the 410 is the real problem.

Bottom line....cool fast stuff costs lots of money. A Focus is $20000...a Shelby is $50000. Call me crazy but I'll take the GT 500 everytime. Do we want to keep something around that is truly impressive and special or do we just want to say we are racing something that looks like a sprint car?

Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3 
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?