Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
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Super Chuck has a question for you guys. Steve Kinser won his 550th career World of Outlaws victory last night and when asked about it, he commented about the WoO now counting Preliminary victories towards the totals...which begs a question.

Sooooo...Super Chuck's question is this: By show of hands, how many of you think the WoO should adjust Career Feature Wins to include Prelim wins prior to 2005 (or whenever they changed that rule)? If they are counting them now, why not dig through the history books and retroactively adjust the totals? (If one of you's smarties can make one of them there voting blocks that would be cool too.) Keeping in mind for many years the WoO format locked in the top four during a Prelim night, but in Super Chuck's opinion that just increased the prelim top four's chances of winning the finale. Discuss.

Super Chuck

Sounds like a factoid begging for an asterisk to me.

I am lucky enough to work at one of the best tracks 
anywhere.

then what would steve's total be,over 1000???

its the same competition whether its preliminary or not

-Austin Rankin

openwheeltimes.com has him with 862 wins. Figure maybe 30-40 with organizations other than WoO, so my guess is 820.

The past is the past. Let it go. Too much energy.

"Just the facts ma'am", Sgt. Joe Friday, Detective, 
LAPD

I can understand your anger. Even in a day when all prelim nights are counted, Donny still cant beat Steves single win platue. Maybe one day he can beat Mark Kinser single win totals. We already know he will never get Steves 550.......oh yea and that looks like its still counting.

Anger???? Really? Lol!

"Just the facts ma'am", Sgt. Joe Friday, Detective, 
LAPD

Member of this message board since 1997

The First...

1978 World of Outlaws Sprint Car Series
Eldora Speedway, Rossburg, Ohio
Sunday, May 21st, A Feature Event #4

Overcast skies with a very well prepared track.

Qualifications: 47 cars
1. Rick Ferkel, Daughtery 0, 15.614 (New Track Record approx. 115.227 MPH);

First Heat Race (10 Laps)
1. Rick Ferkel, 2. Rick Nichols, 3. Butch Bahr, 4. Jim Linder…

Second Heat Race
1. Steve Kinser, 2. Dwain Leiber, 3. Lee Osborne, 4. Jack Hewitt…

Third Heat Race
1. George Harbour, 2. Bobby Allen, 3. Larry Helms, 4. John Draucker…

Fourth Heat Race
1. Charlie Swartz, 2. Kenny Jacobs, 3. Buck Boughan, 4. Ed Anschutz…

Randy Ford flipped in his heat and used a borrowed wing to race in the Semi-Feature. Fred Steinhauser was not as lucky as he destroyed his car flipping down the backstretch and was done for the night in his Heat.

Semi Feature (10 Laps)
1. Don Miller, 2. Mark Keegan, 3. Terry Thompson, 4. Roger McLain, 5. Randy Ford, 6. Charles McCann, 7. Gary Grissom, 8. Steve Liskai, 9. Don O'Connor, 10. Marvin Deputy, 11. Mike Blake, 12. Bill Compton, 13. Gale Dunkin, 14. Jerry Nemire, 15. Bill Corbin, 16. Darrel Daughtery, 17. Dick Liskai, 18. Steve McCann, 19. Chuck Mynett, 20. Harry Rhodes, 21. Fred Steinhauser.

Steve Kinser wins his 1st career WoO A Feature.

A Feature (40 Laps)
1. Steve Kinser [5] $2,000; 2. Jim Linder, 3. Rick Ferkel, 4. Bobby Allen, 5. Rick Nichols, 6. George Harbour, 7. Larry Helms, 8. Dwain Leiber, 9. Lee Osborne, 10. Don Miller, 11. Buck Boughan, 12. Mark Keegan, 13. John Draucker, 14. Roger McLain, 15. Charles McCann, 16. Gary Grissom, 17. Kenny Jacobs, 18. Charlie Swartz, 19. Ed Anschutz, 20. Randy Ford, 21. Butch Bahr, 22. Terry Thompson.
Lap leaders: Lee Osborne 1, Jim Linder 2-19, 35, Steve Kinser 20-34, 36-40.

Osborne takes the initial lead until Linder takes control on the second lap. This forty lapper was a back-and-forth battle between Linder and Kinser while Allen and Ferkel battle for 3rd. Kinser takes the lead around Linder at half-way mark as traffic plays into Linder's hand and retakes the top spot around he 35th lap. Kinser used a better handling car in the late stages and would take the lead next time around and onto the win.

WoO Point Standings after 4 events
1. Steve Kinser (1) 604
2. Rick Ferkel (1) 582
3. Jim Linder 550
4. Charlie Swartz 482
5. Bobby Allen (1) 464
6. Lee Osborne 392
7. Jimmy Boyd (1) 360
8. Don Mack 350
9. Doug Wolfgang 340
10. Larry Helms 318

Kinser had won in local competition at Tri-State on Friday, won the local event at Paragon on Saturday, takes the win Sunday afternoon at Eldora then suffers a severe concussion after flipping and landing cage first at Kokomo on Sunday night. The memory loss attributed with the injury, left Kinser with little short term recollection of the Eldora win hours earlier.

That seems about right. I was looking in the history books and I could see well over 100 preliminary wins. It may have ended close to 200. 820 definitely seems a little high, and definitely not 1000.

Thanks Michael98a; I was looking for the story on Steves First woo win!!!

Long Live  20 Time  World Of Outlaws Champion Steve 
Kinser #11 

Kevin has him with 141 prelims and 547 regular, that makes 688 total out of the 873 in his career. That leaves 85 "other" feature wins...

If this post isn't results, stories or something c
constructive, it isn't me! 
@BillWMedia
www.OpenWheel101.com

So let him have them I say, I always thought a preliminary feature was a legitimate feature win.

This is not the only sport to also have such issues. College Football now counts postseason conference championship and bowl games in players career and season totals. I believe they started doing this in the last 10 years or so. Same question can be asked... why not go back and add postseason game stats to careers of guys like Barry Sanders. Simple answer is games always change. NFL from 12 to 14 to 16 games a season skews career stats and win records. NASCAR now has fewer races and more rules to acheive parity so no one will ever touch the King's 200 win mark. If rules never changed Jeff Gordon would have 6 titles instead of 4. Kyle Busch would have one wrapped up and his brother would have none. It works both ways. I agree with whoever posted the past is the past and you can't change it, just move on.

Regardless of how you slice it, Steve's record is untouchable anyway.

If anyone wants to know, he has 36 All-Star wins,12th on the all time All star list

I was all set to say a win is a win, let's count them, but the insight that Jamie provided has clouded my thinking. I must now rectify 'fairness' with 'reality' in my mind.

Well if they did that, the Pa guys ,and other Local Yocals would have some WOO wins in the record books as well. I am all for it. A Prelim win is a win.

that recap of his 1st WoO from Eldora is pretty cool... can you imagine the WoO guys running two shows in one day these days? lol... I wish I would have been around when the WoO guys ran non-wing, silver crown, random shows...

I wish Earl still did Eldora's track prep.  

Obviously Prelims should count. Whoever came up with the rule that they shouldn't is an idiot. And to count them now and not back then is even more stupid!