Forum: Minnesota Dirt Track Racing Forum (go)
Moderators: StanM

In the case of Cedar Lake they can pay the ASCS sanction fee or put on an open show and they'll get basically the same cars. Might as well put the money they would have used for the sanction fee into the purse and run an open show. Rice Lake has one IRA special and that's about the extent of their intrest in Sprints. They did not have a good year. Likewise Red Cedar, they cancelled their IRA special because (as rumor on the street has it) they couldn't afford to risk another penny. Superior is a Late Model track that has been inviting the IRA up twice a year. This season they dropped their spring IRA show and only had them on the Friday of the Northern Nationals.

Stan Meissner

So why couldn't you run a Fuel Injected LS3 Corvette engine in this class?

Like This

http://schwankeshortblocks.com/Pictures%20Of%20Race%20Cars/6.2L%20LS3%20Sprinter%20Video/ls3sprinterdyno_0001.wmv

Ya know what!? I've been thinking a lot about this engine/cost issue. It's complicated and I'm afraid the new series might add to the drama, but...If the group from the Twin Cities area insists on doing something completely different, maybe they should take a look at the Crate Engine option. The engine is affordable, produces decent dyno numbers, and it's a pretty cool piece!

MSURacing, What happens as the crate engines age? Can local builders re-build them? If so, how would the tracks police the rebuild process? Is the wiring/injection system overly complicated?

Interesting idea, something worth talking about!

I have heard that to lease one of the Schwanke crate engines it would cost $5000/season. If someone only raced 20 races in a season, it would average out to $250/night. There are a lot of guys that would never make enough to even pay for the engine lease for the night, not to mention gas, fuel, tires etc....

If the lease were to be broken down into a nightly fee, say $100-$150 it could be a little more feasible for a lot of guys.

Another problem I see is that after paying the $5000 for the season, at the end of the season you don't own anything. The difference is that if someone wants to get started, they don't have to spend $8000-$30,000 for the initial investment of the engine. After that however, the $5000/year could easily go towards the freshening of the engine that you own.

The best option I see is what that group up in the cities is doing. You can build a brand new engine for $8,000-$10,000 dollars.

So does that $10,000 include the injector, headers, and all neccesary parts to make it complete in a car?

So, lets do your math and see how that works out,

$10,000 / 20 races = $500 per night +

Rebuild after the season = $3500

Now you really spend $13,500 for 40 nights of racing which equals $337.5

Now the thrid year roles around and you need to rebuild again + $3500

So, now you have $17,000 /60 races = $283.33

Plus, with the fuel injected engine, you will use about a third less fuel everynight.

So, I guess the math does work out, huh?

Ok, first this would not be a crate engine. This is a built engine, forged rods, pistons, etc, built by whoever you would like. It would be fuel injected so the policing would be done by rev limit checking.

The wiring is simple, clearly labeled wires with four additional wires to hook up, 2 wires go to the power side of the battery, one wire to switched and one to run the fuel pump. The fuel pumps are in the tank, with an adjustable fuel pressure regulator in the tank as well. There is only one -6 fuel line connecting to the engine, no fuel setup to worry about.

These engines will compete in a standard 360 right now. There has been one racing at Huset's and a little at Redwood for most of the summer.

Hope that helps

If everybody would be so kind as to hang on for a couple more days I will attempt to address some of these issues in a new post. I am not a motor builder, tire expert, car owner, driver or promoter. I'm just the messenger, a guy who does a little bit of writing and photography who happens to live in the area where they intend to run.

I'm currently in the middle of a three day racing weekend and have one more night of racing with an early 5pm start so I won't have time to make that post today. I can tell you that I found out the details for the first meeting and some contacts so you can express your questions and concerns.

I'll probably get to that tomorrow and you'll have plenty of time to make plans so you can be there.

I heard about some exciting developments this weekend and witnessed a sponsor agreement taking place right before my eyes. There are talks taking place regarding a spec tire with the cooperation of the biggest racing tire distributor in Minnesota. Someone who has some clout with the tracks from the Twin Cities Metro and points north and east has indicated they will help with booking shows. I talked to a Sprint Car owner who lives north of the Twin Cities who has only been out racing a couple of nights all season. There are other cars up here gathering dust because they can't afford to tow long distances and this is the group they're targeting.

Somebody suggested in an earlier post that the IRA should create a feeder series with a spec engine. Evidently you're not familiar with the MSA 360 club of eastern Wisconsin, one of the groups this deal is being patterned after. Check out their website and look through the points standings, you'll see their connection to the IRA. This isn't an affiliated series but it has generated interest in Sprints and it's drivers have been moving up to the IRA for years so they've already got an unofficial 360 feeder series. There is also weekly 410 racing down at Wilmot so as you can see Sprint Car racing is very popular in the Milwaukee/Chicago region.

I have to hurry up and finish my photo editing but I will make a new post about this tomorrow to give out more details.

Stan Meissner

We will not be using a crate motor at this time . The whole concept of this new deal is to run the existing ASCS motor sleeved down, which ever now has, or build a new spec motor and run it. This is not open for any negotiation at this time. This will be the engine package. You can buy a brand new 575 hp iron headed motor for 5950.00 out of three engine shops as advertised in there adds. You can buy used injection all day for 1200 to 1500, you can buy Vertex mags any time for 350.00. water pump and belts for 300.00. If you race a "B" mod you will pay 7500 to 8500 for a up front motor. Now any one who choses to run a sprint car can as easily as a "B" mod. If you take your ASCS engine and sleeve it back in the injection you are going to kill 25 to 35 HP depending on the size of the injection sleeve. If you have one like ours [ #55 ] you will have about 610 to 620. Some of you are lost in the argument and not in the purpose.

Will they be equal? well we will have to see. I do have some experience [ 39 years ] as an engine builder and driver and in my opinion this is the best game plan to start with. Ron has come to me for this recommendation and I have worked on this since last spring .My decision to go with this multiple engine deal will cost nothing for the current car owners to race at a UMSS race except the cost of the sleeves , which any muffler shop can build for 50.00. It also invites new owners to build and race competitively an affordable sprint car.

NOW is the time to stop all this and concentrate on finding race dates for the 09 season. We will have the tire rule in place at the meeting and We will have the final engine rules [ Sleeve size] at the meeting as well. I am very excited about this as it will offer us a chance to grow here in the Twin Cities for all Sprint car fans, driver and owners to enjoy and afford. As this goes for Ron , Chuck and myself will continue to seek more sponsor dollars for this and we all believe this will grow. If it fails it will because it was not supported not because it use ill thought out.

Joe Kouba