Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I wonder if some teams might want to put a pencil again to running HL. A lot of hype exists with the Brad and Kyle show. Let's realize this a business decision for them with the support of Flo. While it might have " woken " up World Racing Group, I still have a hard time understanding how this grows the support in the long term. Do we think teams, fans and tracks have enough in the pocket books to support over 140 nights of national series plus supporting weekly programs. 
 

HL has 13 teams "signed up" going for $250k championship winner plus $500 night tow money with a 60 race schedule. Take a close at Rico's schedule...over 80 nights of racing. I think most if not all of HL teams will race that many. Husets 4 day, Knoxville Nationals and WoO at Knoxville, Summer Nationals and Charlotte.

WoO has 86 dates not that many more than Rico's schedule. Woo has a $350k championship winner plus $1,000 a night tow money. Running the Rico schedule a team is losing over 20 nights of tow money , and  the HL tow money is half of WoO.
 

I think the WoO schedule is better for teams. The haul after the Nationals to CA, then Skagit back out east is brutal for HL teams. Maybe if you just ran HL you would be Ok, but HL put a schedule out not to compete with Crown Jewels of sprint car racing. Teams are almost "forced" to race more for less. If you a well funded team, with a national sponsor not that big of deal.

Time will tell, maybe both series will survive. 

I think High Limit is appealing to a lot of eastern teams until they realize with the exception of Eldora they aren't east of the Mississippi from Memorial Day to Labor Day during prime racing season in the east...that's brutal.  Eventually if it makes it more than 2-3 years I see this as WoO owning the eastern time zone and HL owning the western time zone and them squabbling over the central time zone.  I'll say it again - this whole thing is just because Brad wants to spend more time in CA while the kids are out of school, and Kyle wants to get his midweek fix and if they can make it work good on them.  And Rico acting like he's all impartial and "all for the good of the sport" is funny to me.  Brad and Kyle are a couple of your best friends dude, we all know it and get it.  Heck they already put the credibility of their whole series on the line to help you out last year.  Go support them wholeheartedly and vocally, stop straddling the fence.

I think if you looked into the charters that Kyle and Brad are talking about you might see why more teams are at least interested in starting down that road.  The potential for more money in the future is what's drawing them in right now.  Who knows how that will all work out but it's the carrot they're offereing and it appears to be helping some at this point.   

Look into the Charters, it's a blank sheet of paper. From what I have seen it replaces tow and point fund. There is a million questions that need to be answered. Maybe WoO will pay a $1,000,000 to the Champion in 2025. Way way premature to get excited by the hype. Getting more money to teams is great, but with no details, let's look at what's on the table. Again this a business for them, right now half the tow money and smaller point fund. 

I'm pretty sure a few short track racing clubs have tried the Charter deal, just not sure how they are holding up? Isn't nascar some sort of charter system? Will a charter series be inclusive to everyone, will they try to set new rule standards?  Maybe the local tracks can start their own charter regulations when HL proves how successful that platform can be?

There is a lot of confidence and excitement surrounding a series that hasn't run a full touring season.  We will see what happens in a couple months and a couple years with this charter thing.  Until they put a check in the hands of the top five owners at the end of next season we won't know if it wasn't just a carrot on a stick or a fully funded promise.  The charters won't do much for fans in areas that High Limit scheduled against.  

Stan Meissner

How many races did some of these teams race last year with NO tow money or point fund money?

My understanding about the charters, is it is a benefit to the owners. Making it more viable and sustainable for them. It really has nothing to do with the drivers. Don't forget. Kyle and Brad do not own their cars and Kyle will not run enough to have his car owner eligible for a charter.

? You don't think that the teams looked long and hard at all their options before picking a series to follow? i don't think you are giving them enough credit. They do this for a living, afterall.

I think Kyle brought this charter deal into the HL series because of the system they have in nascrap. I know nothing about it, will it work ? Time will tell, but to move sprint car racing to another level  ?  We won't know that for a couple years ànd by then who knows what will happen. 

The 2025 season should be interesting for High Limit.   There will be 5 charters up for grabs and the top 5 drivers (from 2024) will already have charters.             That is when it may get very tempting for the Outlaws to jump ship and chase a High Limit charter.       They would have a better chance since the top tier will already have their charters and not be competing for one.       

Either way, it is nice to see fans, drivers, and (former WRG) employees so excited about this new venture.

Disclaimer:  I don't have a crystal ball.   

10 charters,  my understanding after that 0 $$$ for 11 on back... so who will be jumping ship!

Your idea wont happen.   One of the qualifiers for a charter in either 2024 or 2025 is to have perfect HL attendance for both years.   

As someone else has stated, the exact details of the charter system are still being developed.  They are selling the concept with the details to come later.

There was some lanuage about extra charters 11-14(?) being awarded in special circumstances.   When I read this, I thought it was a carrot to try to recruit an Outlaw team in year 3 or 4.

I am excited to watch the HL races.  I think it will be a good show.  I hate the charter concept.   It goes against the whole "run what you brung"  mentality that most dirt tracks have. 

You are correct that is the way that it works in Nascar.   In the press releases, HL stated that a charter did not guarntee a starting spot.   They would still have to go through the normal qualifying process.   

I don't remember if it addressed provisional starts or not.   There are still a lot of details of the HL charter system that needs to ironed out. 

Something else to think about is that the charter is for the owners not the drivers. There is still going to be tow money and team benefits to new teams that would come on board later.  If this is not correct, then it is a bad flawed system that would only hurt the growth of their series in the future.

JonR,

Thanks for clarifying that.     I missed some of those details.  

Sweet could run the 49 KKR car this year for the Charter then switch to the 9 KKR car next year. KKR would have 2 Charters. The 57 will put someone in the car to complete the year and get a Charter. With Rico and Meyers 14 car would equal half of the Charters. See the connection? I know.....conspiracy theory. But it does all fit.

Just like everything else in life, follow the money trail.  Nobody is doing all of this this work and investment for any reason but to enhance their future and wealth. There is nothing wrong with that. But, don't pretend that they're doing all of this to save the sprint car world.  

Simply put.....No way in Hell they are doing all of this simply for the betterment of the sport. If that was the case they wouldn't have bought the Allstar's simply to destroy it. They bought the Allstars to get Eldora for credability and eliminate competition. That was a great business move. There is a great plan in place but it really doesn't include the local racer any more than the WoO. 

I feel it's a special club and in most cases you aren't in it. There again, that's fine. just don't pretend. 

It's always about the money.

Just remember the first big lie.  "We are not doing this to be competition to the Outlaws". So that's the first big lie where it all started.....If you lie to me once I can never believe everything you say ever again.

Let me preface this by stating I'm a big Larson fan.  However, we've seen this story before.  A new sexy sounding series to challenge the outlaws rises . . . then falls as fast as it appeared.  Big names (top 3 in points from WoO) have jumped ship to join these series, and even that wasn't enough to make them go more than 2 years.  I love the idea of pumping new and more life into the 410 outlaw scene, because like any other business, you have to have a plan for growth and increasing the quality, value, and benefit of your product.  Competition is probably the greatest factor in driving businesses to reflect and improve.  If nothing else, hopefully this drives the WoO to do that.  I don't see HL ever becoming as long-lasting, as WoO.  It would be like a new Cola company trying to usurp Coke or Pepsi.  One is timeless, and one is new and intriguing.  At the end of the day though, I don't think any of this is a detriment to sprintcar racing.  Not in the grand scheme of things anyway.  

I've said before, the WoO is the undisputed heavyweight champ.... so far. I guess we'll see if they keep the belt, no one has beat them yet.  Off topic, I haven't looked at many schedules yet but am thinking some HL teams may have time do some cherry picking during OH and PA speedweeks.