HoseHeads.com | HoseHeads Classifieds | Racer's Auction
Home | Register | Contact | Verify Email | FAQ |
Blogs | Photo Gallery | Press Release | Results | HoseheadsClassifieds.com


Welcome Guest. Already registered? Please Login

 

Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead


Records per page
 
Topic: A blessing in disguise? Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
Page 1 of 2   of  37 replies
Hawker
March 25, 2020 at 08:59:14 PM
Joined: 11/23/2004
Posts: 2679
Reply

Let me put this out there...If I'm out of line, just tell me to STFU and go back to the stands.

I've been around this sport for all 58 years I've been on this planet, I don't remember not going to races. I have worked on cars, worked at tracks and was a photographer for a while. For the most part, over the past 40 or so years, I have seen race track crowds go from being multidimensional to only having the hardcore fans. I remember when Tulsa Speedway would have 10,000 people for a regular Saturday night show.

Remember when you would see full families, teenagers on a date, tons of kids dumped off at the track for the night ect? I do too...But those days are gone.

So here we are, at the end of March and there is no racing anywhere in the world, none, notta, zillch. Times are so desperate that NASCAR is holding virtual races and the Dirtvision is showing reruns.

COVID-19 had everyone hunkered down and getting a massive case of cabin fever and regardless of what some people think or say, there is a very real chance that this could be a "lost summer".

What am I getting at? Well, if I was a track owner or promoter (I know, I'm not), I would be using this time to be brainstorming to harness the attention of all these families when the "starting gate" is opened. People will be very hungry to get outside and be entertained and this whole mess could be a blessing in disguise.

The smart promotor should be rethinking their business plan, promotions to raise awareness now, will pay dividends when this mess is over. But it doesn't end there, stop dragging out the shows, this includes 5 classes of cars, fuel stops, long intermissions and inefficient handling of cautions and reds. Stop dusting out the crowds, and make it affordable to take your family.

Basically, STOP doing everything that made you lose the packed tracks with multidimensional crowds 40 years ago...Promote, promote, promote! This is a once in a lifetime chance to turn things around, don't blow it!


Email Me



Murphy
March 25, 2020 at 09:48:20 PM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 1589
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Hawker on March 25 2020 at 08:59:14 PM

Let me put this out there...If I'm out of line, just tell me to STFU and go back to the stands.

I've been around this sport for all 58 years I've been on this planet, I don't remember not going to races. I have worked on cars, worked at tracks and was a photographer for a while. For the most part, over the past 40 or so years, I have seen race track crowds go from being multidimensional to only having the hardcore fans. I remember when Tulsa Speedway would have 10,000 people for a regular Saturday night show.

Remember when you would see full families, teenagers on a date, tons of kids dumped off at the track for the night ect? I do too...But those days are gone.

So here we are, at the end of March and there is no racing anywhere in the world, none, notta, zillch. Times are so desperate that NASCAR is holding virtual races and the Dirtvision is showing reruns.

COVID-19 had everyone hunkered down and getting a massive case of cabin fever and regardless of what some people think or say, there is a very real chance that this could be a "lost summer".

What am I getting at? Well, if I was a track owner or promoter (I know, I'm not), I would be using this time to be brainstorming to harness the attention of all these families when the "starting gate" is opened. People will be very hungry to get outside and be entertained and this whole mess could be a blessing in disguise.

The smart promotor should be rethinking their business plan, promotions to raise awareness now, will pay dividends when this mess is over. But it doesn't end there, stop dragging out the shows, this includes 5 classes of cars, fuel stops, long intermissions and inefficient handling of cautions and reds. Stop dusting out the crowds, and make it affordable to take your family.

Basically, STOP doing everything that made you lose the packed tracks with multidimensional crowds 40 years ago...Promote, promote, promote! This is a once in a lifetime chance to turn things around, don't blow it!



      I'm a year older than you, but have only been going to the races for 47 of my years. I'm going to come off as a real cynical, but here goes. The main issue is that the world has changed.

    Going back 47 years- When I first went to the races in 1973, things were different. We had no cell phones, no computers, no cable. We had one TV that got 4 channels and one didn't count because it was PBS. Our one phone was screwed to the wall in my parents' bedroom. Professional sports were much smaller. Kids' sports and other activities hadn't really been invented yet, no soccer camp, no dance lessons, etc. Overall, our entertainment choices were about 10% of what they are now. We went to the races on Friday nights for something to do.

    The cars and the costs were very different. My brother-in law was on the pit crew of a supermodified/sprint car. A goof down the road from us had a sprinter and would run it down the gravel road in front of our house. We all had friends whose older brothers had hobby stocks. Several of my classmates in high school raced sprinters when they were in their 20's. Everybody knew someone with racing ties. We went to root on our favorites. Racing involved a lot of rivalries and hereos. It was nothing more than a hobby. None of those guys thought it was a stepping stone to Nascar or the WoO.

     Most cars were homemade. When my brother-in law's team blew a motor he had me ride my bike down the gravel road to a junkyard and ask if they had a 350 chevy with a 4-bolt main. They didn't, but I remeber going there with him one time for other parts for the car. Racing was local; it was affordable; it was familiar to everyone around. The announcer at the track was a popular local DJ. The results were always listed in the write-up in the Sunday paper. They even listed attendance figures- usually in the 2300 range, for a weekly program of sprint cars, superstocks and hobbystocks at a track in town of 45,000 people in western S.D. Racing was a thing.

    Today.............

     



moparfarmer
March 25, 2020 at 09:58:18 PM
Joined: 09/03/2009
Posts: 372
Reply

I agree with the too many classes of cars..Three per weekly show is enough and don't drag out the night..Who wants to sit at a track for 4-5 hours watching 4 cyl/hobby stocks or pure stocks what ever they call them..Or trucks for that matter..




egras
March 25, 2020 at 10:01:21 PM
Joined: 08/16/2009
Posts: 2660
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Hawker on March 25 2020 at 08:59:14 PM

Let me put this out there...If I'm out of line, just tell me to STFU and go back to the stands.

I've been around this sport for all 58 years I've been on this planet, I don't remember not going to races. I have worked on cars, worked at tracks and was a photographer for a while. For the most part, over the past 40 or so years, I have seen race track crowds go from being multidimensional to only having the hardcore fans. I remember when Tulsa Speedway would have 10,000 people for a regular Saturday night show.

Remember when you would see full families, teenagers on a date, tons of kids dumped off at the track for the night ect? I do too...But those days are gone.

So here we are, at the end of March and there is no racing anywhere in the world, none, notta, zillch. Times are so desperate that NASCAR is holding virtual races and the Dirtvision is showing reruns.

COVID-19 had everyone hunkered down and getting a massive case of cabin fever and regardless of what some people think or say, there is a very real chance that this could be a "lost summer".

What am I getting at? Well, if I was a track owner or promoter (I know, I'm not), I would be using this time to be brainstorming to harness the attention of all these families when the "starting gate" is opened. People will be very hungry to get outside and be entertained and this whole mess could be a blessing in disguise.

The smart promotor should be rethinking their business plan, promotions to raise awareness now, will pay dividends when this mess is over. But it doesn't end there, stop dragging out the shows, this includes 5 classes of cars, fuel stops, long intermissions and inefficient handling of cautions and reds. Stop dusting out the crowds, and make it affordable to take your family.

Basically, STOP doing everything that made you lose the packed tracks with multidimensional crowds 40 years ago...Promote, promote, promote! This is a once in a lifetime chance to turn things around, don't blow it!



I'll echo a little of what Murphy said.  His points are all valid. 

I think club sports are the #1 reason----by far------that the family and teenager attendance has suffered at the race track the last decade or more.  We played little league on Tuesday and Thursday nights.  We played teams from our town and our town only. 

Now?  Well, you gotta have a ball tournament every weekend----Friday, Saturday and Sunday.  And it has to be at least a 2 hour drive complete with hotel $$, take-out/eat-ou$$, etc. etc.  Who the hell has time to experience a Saturday night at the track?  

I can hardly get any of my old race buddies to go with me because of Junior's tournaments.  And sometimes, they are basketball tournaments.  ??????????  In July?????????   

Promoters could give families free passes to the races and there likely wouldn't be many more people in the stands.  Not when they are all out of town.  



YungWun24
March 26, 2020 at 07:17:08 AM
Joined: 01/19/2009
Posts: 898
Reply

Hawker, 

I think many of the successful promotors today are doing those things. The scenario of what you described, with familes and kids, I see every Saturday at Knoxville. Granted, Knoxville among a few other tracks, set the bar. 

I hope we'll see a shortened season, with a few specials sprinkled in. 


Keep It Real

Dryslick Willie
March 26, 2020 at 11:06:11 AM
Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 1518
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: moparfarmer on March 25 2020 at 09:58:18 PM

I agree with the too many classes of cars..Three per weekly show is enough and don't drag out the night..Who wants to sit at a track for 4-5 hours watching 4 cyl/hobby stocks or pure stocks what ever they call them..Or trucks for that matter..



Absolutely!  Down here in North Texas many tracks are running as many as eight classes.   Devils Bowl is about the only one that doesn't.    I think Devils Bowl currently has four running on a weekly basis, and I think even that's too many.   If one of the other tracks runs an ASCS regional show, they will also be running IMCA mods, sportmods, stocks, and hobby stocks.   Then of course you add in a factory stock class and street stock class and usually some type of mini stock.   Then who knows if they won't be having dwarf cars too.   I say no thanks...

 

 




leadfoot23
March 26, 2020 at 11:13:52 AM
Joined: 06/19/2007
Posts: 434
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: egras on March 25 2020 at 10:01:21 PM

I'll echo a little of what Murphy said.  His points are all valid. 

I think club sports are the #1 reason----by far------that the family and teenager attendance has suffered at the race track the last decade or more.  We played little league on Tuesday and Thursday nights.  We played teams from our town and our town only. 

Now?  Well, you gotta have a ball tournament every weekend----Friday, Saturday and Sunday.  And it has to be at least a 2 hour drive complete with hotel $$, take-out/eat-ou$$, etc. etc.  Who the hell has time to experience a Saturday night at the track?  

I can hardly get any of my old race buddies to go with me because of Junior's tournaments.  And sometimes, they are basketball tournaments.  ??????????  In July?????????   

Promoters could give families free passes to the races and there likely wouldn't be many more people in the stands.  Not when they are all out of town.  



Egras nailed it.  This is why fewer people go to races.  I drove race cars of some form or another for 30 years.  Quarter midgets, micros, dwarf cars and then sprint cars.  Then along came kids, and dance classes, All Star cheerleading, and tee-ball, etc.  These activities not only affected my time (and money!!) to own and operate a racecar, but after stepping away, I hardly ever went to races as a spectator either.  Why?  Because I wasn't ever home on weekends.  Now my kids are older, one going off to college this year, and my time is going to be spent at more races again.  But make no mistake, year round club sports is without question the reason why a lot of people don't go to races.  

Great topic and discussion, I wish I had a cure for getting more people to attend races.  I truly think it's a sign of the times. 



cheroger
March 26, 2020 at 11:39:12 AM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 911
Reply

A couple things to add to Hawkers comments.  I too was a Tulsa area racer and fan back in the good days of 10,000 fan attendance. Back in the day, people were creatures of habit.  It was a weekly routine to go to Muskogee or OKC on Friday night and Tulsa Speedway on Staurday night.  The same fans did this week after week, year after year.  They knew it would be the same two classes with the same name drivers.  Then when tracks started running other classes and then dropping the premier class at times, that broke the routine and other entertainment venues were considered. Then the fan base began getting smaller.

MY main complaint these days is the number of tracks that are not considering building a fan base, based on teenagers.  To Charge a 12 year old the full adult price full general admission is just plain stupid on their part.  They are shutting out the future fans, partisipents and future sponsors.  A host of tracks these days are charging $15 general admission for a weekly show and a family of 4 or 5 simply can not afford $60-$70 plus concessions for any event.  Then they offer a reduced price to retirees, sometime half of general admission.  These folks are the ones that mostly can afford full price.  I know, now I'll have all of my "Old Fart Friends" pissed off at me, but its a fact.  A charge of $5 max should be the price to KIDS, ages 12-18, they are the future.



revjimk
March 26, 2020 at 11:46:54 AM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 5426
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Murphy on March 25 2020 at 09:48:20 PM

      I'm a year older than you, but have only been going to the races for 47 of my years. I'm going to come off as a real cynical, but here goes. The main issue is that the world has changed.

    Going back 47 years- When I first went to the races in 1973, things were different. We had no cell phones, no computers, no cable. We had one TV that got 4 channels and one didn't count because it was PBS. Our one phone was screwed to the wall in my parents' bedroom. Professional sports were much smaller. Kids' sports and other activities hadn't really been invented yet, no soccer camp, no dance lessons, etc. Overall, our entertainment choices were about 10% of what they are now. We went to the races on Friday nights for something to do.

    The cars and the costs were very different. My brother-in law was on the pit crew of a supermodified/sprint car. A goof down the road from us had a sprinter and would run it down the gravel road in front of our house. We all had friends whose older brothers had hobby stocks. Several of my classmates in high school raced sprinters when they were in their 20's. Everybody knew someone with racing ties. We went to root on our favorites. Racing involved a lot of rivalries and hereos. It was nothing more than a hobby. None of those guys thought it was a stepping stone to Nascar or the WoO.

     Most cars were homemade. When my brother-in law's team blew a motor he had me ride my bike down the gravel road to a junkyard and ask if they had a 350 chevy with a 4-bolt main. They didn't, but I remeber going there with him one time for other parts for the car. Racing was local; it was affordable; it was familiar to everyone around. The announcer at the track was a popular local DJ. The results were always listed in the write-up in the Sunday paper. They even listed attendance figures- usually in the 2300 range, for a weekly program of sprint cars, superstocks and hobbystocks at a track in town of 45,000 people in western S.D. Racing was a thing.

    Today.............

     



Mostly true, except "kids sports and other activities hadn't really been invented yet"...????

We played sports constantly back in the 50s & 60s.... how do you think Mickey Mantle & Willie Mays learned how to play? (That was even earlier, for them...)

 




StanM
MyResults MyPressRelease
March 26, 2020 at 12:36:16 PM
Joined: 11/07/2006
Posts: 4628
Reply
This message was edited on March 26, 2020 at 12:36:29 PM by StanM
Reply to:
Posted By: cheroger on March 26 2020 at 11:39:12 AM

A couple things to add to Hawkers comments.  I too was a Tulsa area racer and fan back in the good days of 10,000 fan attendance. Back in the day, people were creatures of habit.  It was a weekly routine to go to Muskogee or OKC on Friday night and Tulsa Speedway on Staurday night.  The same fans did this week after week, year after year.  They knew it would be the same two classes with the same name drivers.  Then when tracks started running other classes and then dropping the premier class at times, that broke the routine and other entertainment venues were considered. Then the fan base began getting smaller.

MY main complaint these days is the number of tracks that are not considering building a fan base, based on teenagers.  To Charge a 12 year old the full adult price full general admission is just plain stupid on their part.  They are shutting out the future fans, partisipents and future sponsors.  A host of tracks these days are charging $15 general admission for a weekly show and a family of 4 or 5 simply can not afford $60-$70 plus concessions for any event.  Then they offer a reduced price to retirees, sometime half of general admission.  These folks are the ones that mostly can afford full price.  I know, now I'll have all of my "Old Fart Friends" pissed off at me, but its a fact.  A charge of $5 max should be the price to KIDS, ages 12-18, they are the future.



I'm one of those old fart fans and your observation doesn't piss me off.  I get a pit pass when I go to the races and that's anywhere from $30 to $45.  Some retired people struggle to cover general admission and there is a lot of gray hair in the stands so I would think tracks don't want to cut young or old out of their fan base.  The track that I attend most frequently does not offer a senior discount and during the past year or two I have switched to PPV.  I spent my chasing races years in the infield taking photos and traveled alone so I don't have a group to sit with.  I figured I might as well just get Floracing so I could watch IRA, All Star and USAC races.  I'll take the camera out for one of two nights when the Outlaws come to town for old times sake and a couple other events for a total of two or three nights a year.  Seems every darned race these days provides a highlites reel on Youtube the next day so along with text results and Twitter updates a person can follow racing from a distance.  I don't really miss not being there anymore.  It was tough and damn near drove me crazy the first year or so but eventually "out of sight, out of mind" became the norm.


Stan Meissner

egras
March 26, 2020 at 01:21:15 PM
Joined: 08/16/2009
Posts: 2660
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: leadfoot23 on March 26 2020 at 11:13:52 AM

Egras nailed it.  This is why fewer people go to races.  I drove race cars of some form or another for 30 years.  Quarter midgets, micros, dwarf cars and then sprint cars.  Then along came kids, and dance classes, All Star cheerleading, and tee-ball, etc.  These activities not only affected my time (and money!!) to own and operate a racecar, but after stepping away, I hardly ever went to races as a spectator either.  Why?  Because I wasn't ever home on weekends.  Now my kids are older, one going off to college this year, and my time is going to be spent at more races again.  But make no mistake, year round club sports is without question the reason why a lot of people don't go to races.  

Great topic and discussion, I wish I had a cure for getting more people to attend races.  I truly think it's a sign of the times. 



I'm that parent that refused to let my kids do the club thing.  I told them their summers are for vacations, cook outs, hanging with their friends, and dare I say it-----------A JOB!!!----so you can pay for your own @#Q%#$^ phone and gas!

They can play whatever sport they want that is affiliated with the school, and that does include a Thursday night basketball league that plays 6 Thursday nights in the summer.  But, no extra traveling crap.  Dad needs to go to the races.  



longtimefan
March 26, 2020 at 01:26:29 PM
Joined: 12/02/2004
Posts: 315
Reply

I think these reason are why most of the country can't figure out the success of the Pa. tracks. They do theses things you are talking and we have families and teenagers at our races. Under 12 free reduced admission for students 12 to 18 with student ID. And our women go also. I attended part of Indiana Sprint Week last year an noticed the mostly old fart crowd. My wife said something about one of the support classes one night, I said one of their mothers might be nearby. She said no she isn't because it looks like their mothers and wives don't even come to watch them.




tenter
March 26, 2020 at 02:07:58 PM
Joined: 07/16/2008
Posts: 687
Reply

It's not the 3 classes per night that is the issue, it's the 50+ classes that split the field. I see no reason to have 7-8 classes of sprint cars just it the state of PA !!!



cheroger
March 26, 2020 at 02:22:39 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 911
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: longtimefan on March 26 2020 at 01:26:29 PM

I think these reason are why most of the country can't figure out the success of the Pa. tracks. They do theses things you are talking and we have families and teenagers at our races. Under 12 free reduced admission for students 12 to 18 with student ID. And our women go also. I attended part of Indiana Sprint Week last year an noticed the mostly old fart crowd. My wife said something about one of the support classes one night, I said one of their mothers might be nearby. She said no she isn't because it looks like their mothers and wives don't even come to watch them.



One of the reasons for the continued popularity in Pa is what I mention in an above post.  The fans are so accustomed to the same routine every week.  For the most part the same local hero's, the fans they sit next to and very well run shows.  To them going to the races is a habit week in and week out.



Murphy
March 26, 2020 at 02:49:50 PM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 1589
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: revjimk on March 26 2020 at 11:46:54 AM

Mostly true, except "kids sports and other activities hadn't really been invented yet"...????

We played sports constantly back in the 50s & 60s.... how do you think Mickey Mantle & Willie Mays learned how to play? (That was even earlier, for them...)

 



Ok, good point. So maybe they weren't so overdone back then. Because we all know that your kid is going to go pro someday. That's why you need to spend so much time and money on camps, etc. for a third grader.




Murphy
March 26, 2020 at 02:53:11 PM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 1589
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: cheroger on March 26 2020 at 11:39:12 AM

A couple things to add to Hawkers comments.  I too was a Tulsa area racer and fan back in the good days of 10,000 fan attendance. Back in the day, people were creatures of habit.  It was a weekly routine to go to Muskogee or OKC on Friday night and Tulsa Speedway on Staurday night.  The same fans did this week after week, year after year.  They knew it would be the same two classes with the same name drivers.  Then when tracks started running other classes and then dropping the premier class at times, that broke the routine and other entertainment venues were considered. Then the fan base began getting smaller.

MY main complaint these days is the number of tracks that are not considering building a fan base, based on teenagers.  To Charge a 12 year old the full adult price full general admission is just plain stupid on their part.  They are shutting out the future fans, partisipents and future sponsors.  A host of tracks these days are charging $15 general admission for a weekly show and a family of 4 or 5 simply can not afford $60-$70 plus concessions for any event.  Then they offer a reduced price to retirees, sometime half of general admission.  These folks are the ones that mostly can afford full price.  I know, now I'll have all of my "Old Fart Friends" pissed off at me, but its a fact.  A charge of $5 max should be the price to KIDS, ages 12-18, they are the future.



Pssst: Make the cost for 12-18 year old fans in the $4-$5 range. Mom and Dad will send the kid with a $20 and the kid will spend $15 on concessions.



hiroshimacarp
March 26, 2020 at 04:05:48 PM
Joined: 10/06/2018
Posts: 15
Reply

racing does seem to be ready to run out of the gate.  if this is over by june...we'll have the first ever nascar double header with trucks and xfinity at pocono followed a week later by the first ever indycar/nascar double header at indianapolis.  pa speedweek will be going on as well.  i've never been to indy but would definitely think about making the trip out there.  



sprintcarfanatic
March 26, 2020 at 04:53:41 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1057
Reply

Draggin in out especially when it is cold sucks.

I also have been going to the races since birth.

Hawker hit the nail on the head and damn near drove it completely through whatever it was he was hammering it through !!!!

Pissed me off that Eldora and anywhere else always charged adult price for 16 yrs old when you are not considered an adult until 18.

Gas prices right now are as low as what 25, 30 yrs ago ?




sprintcarfanatic
March 26, 2020 at 05:00:54 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1057
Reply

2 other things that were mentioned pertains to my local track on the West of Lima 

They had an announcer that was a local DJ & he absolutely sucked. Best thing that ever happened was when he left.

The other thing is they want to cater to what locals they have/get for there weekly program & could care less if they do anything different.Tthey still take the 1 weekend in July off even after losing the Doty Classic.



baltimore
MyWebsite
March 26, 2020 at 05:13:01 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 56
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Murphy on March 25 2020 at 09:48:20 PM

      I'm a year older than you, but have only been going to the races for 47 of my years. I'm going to come off as a real cynical, but here goes. The main issue is that the world has changed.

    Going back 47 years- When I first went to the races in 1973, things were different. We had no cell phones, no computers, no cable. We had one TV that got 4 channels and one didn't count because it was PBS. Our one phone was screwed to the wall in my parents' bedroom. Professional sports were much smaller. Kids' sports and other activities hadn't really been invented yet, no soccer camp, no dance lessons, etc. Overall, our entertainment choices were about 10% of what they are now. We went to the races on Friday nights for something to do.

    The cars and the costs were very different. My brother-in law was on the pit crew of a supermodified/sprint car. A goof down the road from us had a sprinter and would run it down the gravel road in front of our house. We all had friends whose older brothers had hobby stocks. Several of my classmates in high school raced sprinters when they were in their 20's. Everybody knew someone with racing ties. We went to root on our favorites. Racing involved a lot of rivalries and hereos. It was nothing more than a hobby. None of those guys thought it was a stepping stone to Nascar or the WoO.

     Most cars were homemade. When my brother-in law's team blew a motor he had me ride my bike down the gravel road to a junkyard and ask if they had a 350 chevy with a 4-bolt main. They didn't, but I remeber going there with him one time for other parts for the car. Racing was local; it was affordable; it was familiar to everyone around. The announcer at the track was a popular local DJ. The results were always listed in the write-up in the Sunday paper. They even listed attendance figures- usually in the 2300 range, for a weekly program of sprint cars, superstocks and hobbystocks at a track in town of 45,000 people in western S.D. Racing was a thing.

    Today.............

     



+1





Post Reply
You must be logged in to Post a Message.
Not a member register Here.
Already registered? Please Login





If you have a website and would like to set up a forum here at HoseHeadForums.com
please contact us by using the contact link at the top of the page.

© 2020 HoseHeadForums.com Privacy Policy