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Topic: Eliason Slide Job Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
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SAF92
March 09, 2020 at 07:30:18 AM
Joined: 01/24/2018
Posts: 383
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Wagner tweeted something to the effect that "you would think that we were racing for $20k, not a heat win."

Thoughts? Does Port Royal's format award drivers for winning heats? Are features lined up by draw or directly off heat races finishing order? I had no problem with the slider... Eliason had him completely cleared. Wagner reiterated that he was not frustrated but it was just not a move he would pull in a heat race.




railfan33
March 09, 2020 at 07:59:10 AM
Joined: 07/24/2010
Posts: 533
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: SAF92 on March 09 2020 at 07:30:18 AM

Wagner tweeted something to the effect that "you would think that we were racing for $20k, not a heat win."

Thoughts? Does Port Royal's format award drivers for winning heats? Are features lined up by draw or directly off heat races finishing order? I had no problem with the slider... Eliason had him completely cleared. Wagner reiterated that he was not frustrated but it was just not a move he would pull in a heat race.



Top 2 in each heat redraw for feature starting position.



Paintboss
MyWebsite
March 09, 2020 at 08:41:06 AM
Joined: 12/02/2004
Posts: 1735
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In a Racers mind  I'm sure for the more competitive drivers, A win is a win whether its for 20K or for just another notch in their belt..

 

 




fiXXXer
March 09, 2020 at 09:54:21 AM
Joined: 10/26/2014
Posts: 2051
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: SAF92 on March 09 2020 at 07:30:18 AM

Wagner tweeted something to the effect that "you would think that we were racing for $20k, not a heat win."

Thoughts? Does Port Royal's format award drivers for winning heats? Are features lined up by draw or directly off heat races finishing order? I had no problem with the slider... Eliason had him completely cleared. Wagner reiterated that he was not frustrated but it was just not a move he would pull in a heat race.



I've seen Logan pull that same move many times and it wasn't always for the win in the closing laps of the feature. The travelers these days seem to race with a whole different level of intensity than our locals do & the results of ASCoC & WoO races contested on PA soil the past couple of seasons reflect that. In this case, it only took 4 races for a traveler to come to PA & leave with the big check. I expect this season to be much like last season in that regard. 



SAF92
March 09, 2020 at 10:08:14 AM
Joined: 01/24/2018
Posts: 383
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Reply to:
Posted By: fiXXXer on March 09 2020 at 09:54:21 AM

I've seen Logan pull that same move many times and it wasn't always for the win in the closing laps of the feature. The travelers these days seem to race with a whole different level of intensity than our locals do & the results of ASCoC & WoO races contested on PA soil the past couple of seasons reflect that. In this case, it only took 4 races for a traveler to come to PA & leave with the big check. I expect this season to be much like last season in that regard. 



Eliason commented that you never know how close the person behind you is. He had a huge run and you cant afford to lift on the final lap whether its a heat or feature. I'm hoping Eliason takes that next step in 2020 and presents an actaul challenge to Reutzel fr the ASCoC title.



amyjur
March 09, 2020 at 10:27:07 AM
Joined: 08/13/2005
Posts: 62
Reply

Coming from Logan, I don't put much stock in the comment. Doing it to someone else, anywhere, anytime, perfectly OK. Having it done to him, apparently a different story. He runs there every week and anybody knows with a race track that was so top dominant at that time, passing meant slider and Eliason was clear. It did spark a conversation at the time and then again after the race was over. The debate was on. Did winning the heat matter since the top 2 got in the pill draw? The driver's apparently think so and if you're a math geek (I'm not) the math seems to support it. The winner of heat 1 gets to draw first followed by the winner of heat 2 etc. The first guy to draw has an equal chance of drawing any one of the ten spots. Each driver to draw afterwards, their odds of what they can draw are now different based upon what was drawn before them. After Eliason drew, the one was taken. For the second guy to draw, mathmatically he had a better chance of drawing in the bottom half 5-10 than he did the top half 2-4. I hope you see what I'm getting at and yes, it can work in the opposite had Eliason drawn the 10 but it doesn't change that the first guy to draw has the most even chance of getting anywhere in those 10 spots. I guess to some degree it may depend on your mindset. Do you want to try and try and work the odds or do you figure you're in the draw and will get what your supposed to get no matter when you draw it. Maybe when they are clawing for heat race wins it's not just about winning but they are just trying to work the odds.           




railfan33
March 09, 2020 at 10:37:44 AM
Joined: 07/24/2010
Posts: 533
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: fiXXXer on March 09 2020 at 09:54:21 AM

I've seen Logan pull that same move many times and it wasn't always for the win in the closing laps of the feature. The travelers these days seem to race with a whole different level of intensity than our locals do & the results of ASCoC & WoO races contested on PA soil the past couple of seasons reflect that. In this case, it only took 4 races for a traveler to come to PA & leave with the big check. I expect this season to be much like last season in that regard. 



Don't disagree in principle with your thoughts, but let's put yesterday in perspective. Winner came off the front row and never got into heavy lapped traffic. The real show was the 69k from P16 to P4. Put him on the front row and it's no contest.



longtimefan
March 09, 2020 at 11:31:54 AM
Joined: 12/02/2004
Posts: 315
Reply

The one on lap two of feature was more questionable. He did not clear that one. He said in the interview that they might have made contact. Yea I think too.



W2Motorsports
March 09, 2020 at 02:25:44 PM
Joined: 03/02/2017
Posts: 261
Reply
This message was edited on March 09, 2020 at 02:26:23 PM by W2Motorsports
Reply to:
Posted By: amyjur on March 09 2020 at 10:27:07 AM

Coming from Logan, I don't put much stock in the comment. Doing it to someone else, anywhere, anytime, perfectly OK. Having it done to him, apparently a different story. He runs there every week and anybody knows with a race track that was so top dominant at that time, passing meant slider and Eliason was clear. It did spark a conversation at the time and then again after the race was over. The debate was on. Did winning the heat matter since the top 2 got in the pill draw? The driver's apparently think so and if you're a math geek (I'm not) the math seems to support it. The winner of heat 1 gets to draw first followed by the winner of heat 2 etc. The first guy to draw has an equal chance of drawing any one of the ten spots. Each driver to draw afterwards, their odds of what they can draw are now different based upon what was drawn before them. After Eliason drew, the one was taken. For the second guy to draw, mathmatically he had a better chance of drawing in the bottom half 5-10 than he did the top half 2-4. I hope you see what I'm getting at and yes, it can work in the opposite had Eliason drawn the 10 but it doesn't change that the first guy to draw has the most even chance of getting anywhere in those 10 spots. I guess to some degree it may depend on your mindset. Do you want to try and try and work the odds or do you figure you're in the draw and will get what your supposed to get no matter when you draw it. Maybe when they are clawing for heat race wins it's not just about winning but they are just trying to work the odds.           



The same logic can be used backwards. Had Eliason drawn the 10 then all of the subsequent drivers would have had their chances to draw near the front increase, and near the back decrease. I don't think there is any such thing as playing the odds in a blind draw. Some drivers may be superstitious and prefer to draw first or last but neither of those guarantees, or even improves your chances at a good outcome mathematically. 




fiXXXer
March 09, 2020 at 04:37:18 PM
Joined: 10/26/2014
Posts: 2051
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Reply to:
Posted By: railfan33 on March 09 2020 at 10:37:44 AM

Don't disagree in principle with your thoughts, but let's put yesterday in perspective. Winner came off the front row and never got into heavy lapped traffic. The real show was the 69k from P16 to P4. Put him on the front row and it's no contest.



Lance had it going for sure and we all love to see someone passing cars like that but in the end, the 26 was the winner. Things like this rarely used to happen. The WoO have always won their share but the All Stars are now flat out dominating the posse. You can throw whatever variable or reason you want into the discussion but the only thing that really matters is who crossed the checkered flag first at the end of the feature and lately, the Posse's results have been piss poor. Some day it will swing the other way again I'm sure because that's how these things work but for now, the travelers are on a whole different level.



tenter
March 09, 2020 at 06:03:51 PM
Joined: 07/16/2008
Posts: 687
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Reply to:
Posted By: longtimefan on March 09 2020 at 11:31:54 AM

The one on lap two of feature was more questionable. He did not clear that one. He said in the interview that they might have made contact. Yea I think too.



Not even questionable. contact was made. I didn't see it live because the new concession stand and restroom location blocked my veiw. But I did catch it later that night on Speedshift.



dirtraceorbust
MyWebsite
March 09, 2020 at 07:17:53 PM
Joined: 10/10/2009
Posts: 573
Reply

"the All Stars are flat-out dominating the posse"?  That statement kind of surprises me as tough as the "posse" cars and drivers are and have been for a long time.. I guess I don't follow dirt racing as much as I thought I did.


America, where the world wants to live. 


cubicdollars
March 10, 2020 at 02:50:42 AM
Joined: 02/27/2005
Posts: 4280
Reply

lol. I guess if you call Reutzel winning the All Stars first race at the Grove in 40 years dominating.

Eliason was a little out of control. He is lucky he didn't hit pit opening the corner after.


 

 

 

They don't even know how to spell sprint car much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com


fiXXXer
March 10, 2020 at 07:27:03 AM
Joined: 10/26/2014
Posts: 2051
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Reply to:
Posted By: cubicdollars on March 10 2020 at 02:50:42 AM

lol. I guess if you call Reutzel winning the All Stars first race at the Grove in 40 years dominating.

Eliason was a little out of control. He is lucky he didn't hit pit opening the corner after.



Reutzel won twice at Williams Grove plus the Tuscarora 50, Grandview & Bedford if you want to count that. Skylar Gee won at Lincoln, Gerard McIntyre BAPS & Eliason won an unsanctioned show at BAPS. It's become a common occurrence. The Posse hasn't been shut out, but the All Stars have been much stronger as of late.



IADIRT
March 10, 2020 at 08:15:18 AM
Joined: 04/29/2014
Posts: 627
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: amyjur on March 09 2020 at 10:27:07 AM

Coming from Logan, I don't put much stock in the comment. Doing it to someone else, anywhere, anytime, perfectly OK. Having it done to him, apparently a different story. He runs there every week and anybody knows with a race track that was so top dominant at that time, passing meant slider and Eliason was clear. It did spark a conversation at the time and then again after the race was over. The debate was on. Did winning the heat matter since the top 2 got in the pill draw? The driver's apparently think so and if you're a math geek (I'm not) the math seems to support it. The winner of heat 1 gets to draw first followed by the winner of heat 2 etc. The first guy to draw has an equal chance of drawing any one of the ten spots. Each driver to draw afterwards, their odds of what they can draw are now different based upon what was drawn before them. After Eliason drew, the one was taken. For the second guy to draw, mathmatically he had a better chance of drawing in the bottom half 5-10 than he did the top half 2-4. I hope you see what I'm getting at and yes, it can work in the opposite had Eliason drawn the 10 but it doesn't change that the first guy to draw has the most even chance of getting anywhere in those 10 spots. I guess to some degree it may depend on your mindset. Do you want to try and try and work the odds or do you figure you're in the draw and will get what your supposed to get no matter when you draw it. Maybe when they are clawing for heat race wins it's not just about winning but they are just trying to work the odds.           



I hear guys making this argument all the time. I get the full range of possibilities is there if you draw first but if it's a fair draw it really doesn't matter. It's just random luck to pull any number. Now I will say this, on a much smaller level like IMCA it has been known for the draw to be stick, spoons, or cards and sometimes home cooking is in the works for the local where the two or one spots are in a specific spot like far left or far right or two from the end.... wherever. In those cases absolutely do I want to be the first person to draw. Granted this is low level mods and stocks not PA 410 sprints but I am sure it can happen anywhere. I'm guessing at the higher level a fair draw is more likely.




IADIRT
March 10, 2020 at 08:16:11 AM
Joined: 04/29/2014
Posts: 627
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: amyjur on March 09 2020 at 10:27:07 AM

Coming from Logan, I don't put much stock in the comment. Doing it to someone else, anywhere, anytime, perfectly OK. Having it done to him, apparently a different story. He runs there every week and anybody knows with a race track that was so top dominant at that time, passing meant slider and Eliason was clear. It did spark a conversation at the time and then again after the race was over. The debate was on. Did winning the heat matter since the top 2 got in the pill draw? The driver's apparently think so and if you're a math geek (I'm not) the math seems to support it. The winner of heat 1 gets to draw first followed by the winner of heat 2 etc. The first guy to draw has an equal chance of drawing any one of the ten spots. Each driver to draw afterwards, their odds of what they can draw are now different based upon what was drawn before them. After Eliason drew, the one was taken. For the second guy to draw, mathmatically he had a better chance of drawing in the bottom half 5-10 than he did the top half 2-4. I hope you see what I'm getting at and yes, it can work in the opposite had Eliason drawn the 10 but it doesn't change that the first guy to draw has the most even chance of getting anywhere in those 10 spots. I guess to some degree it may depend on your mindset. Do you want to try and try and work the odds or do you figure you're in the draw and will get what your supposed to get no matter when you draw it. Maybe when they are clawing for heat race wins it's not just about winning but they are just trying to work the odds.           



I hear guys making this argument all the time. I get the full range of possibilities is there if you draw first but if it's a fair draw it really doesn't matter. It's just random luck to pull any number. Now I will say this, on a much smaller level like IMCA it has been known for the draw to be stick, spoons, or cards and sometimes home cooking is in the works for the local where the two or one spots are in a specific spot like far left or far right or two from the end.... wherever. In those cases absolutely do I want to be the first person to draw. Granted this is low level mods and stocks not PA 410 sprints but I am sure it can happen anywhere. I'm guessing at the higher level a fair draw is more likely.





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